Lee PrecisionLoad DataRepackboxInline Fabrication
WidenersMidSouth Shooters SupplyReloading EverythingTitan Reloading
RotoMetals2
Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 179

Thread: Do you believe in hell?

  1. #61
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    10,572
    in one of the very earliest versions of the Bible theres a line where Jesus says he will go down to haties and save those who are there. or something to that effect
    You're gonna have to post a reference to that!!
    Whatever!

  2. #62
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by .429&H110 View Post
    Didja ever read it?
    Didja ever attend a Wednesday night and pray?
    Didja ever see prayer answered?
    I have.
    Faith is not complicated.
    Faith is easy.
    Faith is a choice.
    Live shut into your world
    worshipping yourself
    or live in God's world
    and thank Him.
    Serve Him.
    Hell is a choice. Choose well.
    "For me and my house, we will serve the Lord"
    said Joshua
    In honor of the day, dig out
    Isaiah 9:11 and 10...
    Rezim was the king of syria
    who were his enemies? The arabs.
    The sycamores survived 9/11 and protected that church
    the church where Washington consecrated America
    across the street from ground zero
    Washington declared a covenant
    with God there that day 1792.
    We forgot. God doesn't forget.
    We dug up the sycamores, planted pine trees.
    I like Psalm 19:11 better...
    Choose well.
    To fail to choose is a choice, too.
    yes to all, good post

  3. #63
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder Stick View Post
    "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," - 2 Timothy 3:16
    it would be nice if there was a like button that we could just click on. it would save a lot of space and time

  4. #64
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    You're gonna have to post a reference to that!!
    that is not true

  5. #65
    Boolit Buddy

    Thunder Stick's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    You're gonna have to post a reference to that!!
    "This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people." What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?" Ephesians 4:8-9 8


    "The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me, because the Lord has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners," Isaiah 61:1 (See Luke 4:10)


    "As for you, because of the blood of my covenant with you, I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit." Zechariah 9:11

    Isaiah 42:6-7

    “I am the Lord, I have called You in righteousness, I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You, And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the nations, To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the dungeon And those who dwell in darkness from the prison." Isaiah 42:6-7

    This occured when Christ died and rose again. "Abraham's bosom" the place for the righteous dead was emptied. (We discussed Abraham's Bosom in the story of Lazarus and the rich man.)
    “If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth.” - Ronald Reagan

  6. #66
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,949
    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Parson is a guy who addressed the question a few posts back.



    Going to the core of your question, there is a vast difference between "watering down" the realities of hell and deliberately causing unnecessary and pointless grief in remaining loved ones; jamming the total truth down grieving throats would be emotional cruelty without purpose and I, for one, don't feel like doing that.



    Now, that's a "lovingly" cruel approach, isn't it? Truth is, I have no way of knowing what spiritual state of heart granny was in when she exhaled her last breath. Nor do you. And my loving ol' grandpa once told me that if what I'd like to say is harmful instead of helpful to just keep my mouth shut. I try. (I wish more people would live that way.)



    Nonsense. Annihilation is hardly a message of peace. It has been a message of emotional terror since the dawn of time, way before there was any knowledge of an eternal hell.

    You're more studious and innerlecshal than me so you'll have to tell me how a dying unbeliever would be afraid of a hell. That would require that he believe in something he doesn't believe in; how would that work??

    In God's love, he has explained in detail how to avoid hell and then He - in the person of Jesus - paid the penalty for our sins himself so man will never need to face it.

    Salvation is simple to understand and easy to do. I can't fathom how/why so many people (who know better) still reject the present joys of a well lived Christian life, and that's before heaven comes into play.



    I suspect I've spent much more time studying the coming life in heaven and hell than you. And I know there's a vast difference between having an open mind or an extra hole in the head.



    "Has it never ....?" Not for a moment; why should it?

    You're stewing over gauzy things that make no difference. Do you not think God and Adam had a lot more conversation than the very brief condensation recorded in Genesis?
    It does make a difference to me (and many others) in how God will deal with the unsaved. Death was promised for disobedience, not eternal torment. Had God told Adam and Eve "death" actually meant eternal torment, I certainly think it would have been included in his warning. There is a big difference between death (ceasing to live) and unending torture. To equate the two is ridiculous and would make it that God had lied to Adam and Eve.

    The germ for the idea of eternal torment doesn't appear until Jesus taught with a few parables that describe destruction. Why do you suppose the disciples didn't ask Jesus about a never ending physical hell? The disciples did not because they understood what he was getting at: the lost are obliterated like dead branches in the fire. The next "evidence" we see for an everlasting eternal punishment is in Revelations. However, this book is written in symbolism and hyperbole and should be used sparingly for proof especially when you get into weird descriptions. The books of the New Testament that we use to establish doctrine do not present an eternal conscientious torment for the lost. The authors use terms that suggest an end to existence: death, perish, destroyed.

    Those who see Jesus' parables as depicting eternal torment for the unsaved don't even take these passages literally. We no longer have Jonathan Edwards preaching a terrifying picture of sinners being roasted throughout the never ending ages. Now we have people claiming that hell will be psychological suffering or a eternity away from the good things of God. Even you yourself have suggested as much. Why is that? Because eternal physical suffering is just too much to fathom (because for reasonable people it seems unfair), let alone suggest God would do such a thing.

    Annihilation will bring peace to those who are lost. They will not have to endure the harmful effects of sin,restlessness, etc. anymore. I would rather picture a lost loved one being obliterated than being tortured forever. They will be given peace.

    There are many people who "believe" that are not saved (see James). There are those who have accepted the Gospel message as fact, but for whatever reason will not commit to God. I would imagine these people would worry about hell.

    I don't know if you've spent more time studying these things than me or not. Maybe, since you're older.

  7. #67
    Boolit Buddy

    Thunder Stick's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    Those who see Jesus' parables as depicting eternal torment for the unsaved don't even take these passages literally. We no longer have Jonathan Edwards preaching a terrifying picture of sinners being roasted throughout the never ending ages. Now we have people claiming that hell will be psychological suffering or a eternity away from the good things of God. Even you yourself have suggested as much. Why is that? Because eternal physical suffering is just too much to fathom (because for reasonable people it seems unfair), let alone suggest God would do such a thing.
    That is using human logic and feelings and understanding to interpret what the Bible has to say on the subject. You have not quoted any of God’s Word to support your position. Any believer here would be happy to mail you a free Bible to read. Please don’t just take our word for it. Read it for yourself. Really.

    The story of Lazarus and the rich man is not a parable. It is a fact. No parable identifies the subjects by name. That’s what makes it a... parable.
    “If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth.” - Ronald Reagan

  8. #68
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,949
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder Stick View Post
    That is using human logic and feelings and understanding to interpret what the Bible has to say on the subject. You have not quoted any of God’s Word to support your position. Any believer here would be happy to mail you a free Bible to read. Please don’t just take our word for it. Read it for yourself. Really.

    The story of Lazarus and the rich man is not a parable. It is a fact. No parable identifies the subjects by name. That’s what makes it a... parable.
    Do you need to be insulting? You think I just sit here making up stuff? No, I have done my share of Bible study.

    I did quote Bible passages, not all of them though. Over and over the Bible says "death", "perish" and "destroy." The only way we have to interpret these words is using human understanding. Do you know of another? Somehow people came to believe that these words actually mean eternal suffering. That is very odd and it is certainly reading something into those passages.

    Do you realize that when Jesus healed people, and when the way he went about doing it was described, that no two ways were the same? Jesus used variety in his ministry. The parables he told also used a variety of presentations. Just because Lazarus and Abraham were named doesn't mean it was a true story (where do you get this is the criteria?). The story was told to describe the magnitude and peril of unbelief, not give a lecture on the afterlife. This is basic biblical interpretation (FWIW, I learned this getting my degree in biblical studies). Even if the story were a true event, there is no mention that the rich man's situation is eternal.

    I realize I will change few minds with my arguments here. I was hoping to prompt some interest in researching the matter. Alas, it is almost impossible to have Christians examine or amend their personal doctrine (at one time this was called a not having a teachable spirit). But you don't have to be rude about things.

    I have suggested more than once a better source of information on the matter than myself. I was once like you guys. I was sure that sinners would be tormented in hell forever. My mind was changed. Is there emotion involved? Yes, I feel much better in what I have learned and come to believe.
    Last edited by Ickisrulz; 09-12-2020 at 06:40 PM.

  9. #69
    Boolit Master scattershot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    1,532
    No......
    "Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"


    Disarming is a mistake free people only get to make once...

  10. #70
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    It does make a difference to me (and many others) in how God will deal with the unsaved. Death was promised for disobedience, not eternal torment. Had God told Adam and Eve "death" actually meant eternal torment, I certainly think it would have been included in his warning. There is a big difference between death (ceasing to live) and unending torture. To equate the two is ridiculous and would make it that God had lied to Adam and Eve.

    The germ for the idea of eternal torment doesn't appear until Jesus taught with a few parables that describe destruction. Why do you suppose the disciples didn't ask Jesus about a never ending physical hell? The disciples did not because they understood what he was getting at: the lost are obliterated like dead branches in the fire. The next "evidence" we see for an everlasting eternal punishment is in Revelations. However, this book is written in symbolism and hyperbole and should be used sparingly for proof especially when you get into weird descriptions. The books of the New Testament that we use to establish doctrine do not present an eternal conscientious torment for the lost. The authors use terms that suggest an end to existence: death, perish, destroyed.

    Those who see Jesus' parables as depicting eternal torment for the unsaved don't even take these passages literally. We no longer have Jonathan Edwards preaching a terrifying picture of sinners being roasted throughout the never ending ages. Now we have people claiming that hell will be psychological suffering or a eternity away from the good things of God. Even you yourself have suggested as much. Why is that? Because eternal physical suffering is just too much to fathom (because for reasonable people it seems unfair), let alone suggest God would do such a thing.

    Annihilation will bring peace to those who are lost. They will not have to endure the harmful effects of sin,restlessness, etc. anymore. I would rather picture a lost loved one being obliterated than being tortured forever. They will be given peace.

    There are many people who "believe" that are not saved (see James). There are those who have accepted the Gospel message as fact, but for whatever reason will not commit to God. I would imagine these people would worry about hell.

    I don't know if you've spent more time studying these things than me or not. Maybe, since you're older.
    God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He does not change, if he does change then we cannot believe the bible at all, so what would you have? i say nothing. john 3:16 says it very well, part of the verse "whoever believes in him should not perish but have ETERNAL life." that means forever. and yes, that's why Jesus warned us continually about believing in him and why it is so important.

  11. #71
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,949
    Quote Originally Posted by a danl View Post
    God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He does not change, if he does change then we cannot believe the bible at all, so what would you have? i say nothing. john 3:16 says it very well, part of the verse "whoever believes in him should not perish but have ETERNAL life." that means forever. and yes, that's why Jesus warned us continually about believing in him and why it is so important.
    How does your post relate to mine?

  12. #72
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    How does your post relate to mine?
    aren't we talking about an eternity of punishment ? eternity is forever !

  13. #73
    Boolit Master

    Electrod47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    638
    Amen, to that.

  14. #74
    Boolit Master

    Electrod47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    638
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    When it comes to the fate of the unsaved, the careful student should forget everything they think they know and study the Bible passages that deal with the issue. The idea that the lost are tormented for all eternity does not have much biblical support. The natural reading of these passages (keeping in mind Jesus' use of highly symbolic imagery) leads one to believe that the lost are punished for their sins and then annihilated. They cease to exist.
    Amen to this.

  15. #75
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Green Valley
    Posts
    733
    All y'all making this harder than it needs to be. We have 73 posts, Romans is only 17 pages. Apostle Paul describes how you should be. Thus Romans 12.

    19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

    >>"for it written..."<<

    Where? 16 cross references across The Word of God
    Deuteronomy 32:35 for example.
    If you are uncomfortable with a God of Vengeance, God of Wrath, reaping the whirlwind, the whole judging thing, Heaven and Gehenna, then you must choose. Ignore the hole in your heart or fill it with the only thing that fits. I do not worry at all, or study much, the afterlife, I am just trying to get out of here alive. I would be glad if you came with me. Thank You Jesus for not leaving me as I was!

  16. #76
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,949
    Quote Originally Posted by a danl View Post
    aren't we talking about an eternity of punishment ? eternity is forever !
    I still don't know your point. But keep in mind, the words "eternity" and "forever" were not in the Greek language.

  17. #77
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    I still don't know your point. But keep in mind, the words "eternity" and "forever" were not in the Greek language.
    i know the greeks didn't speak english. so the original wording would translate to our words in english, correct?

  18. #78
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,949
    Quote Originally Posted by a danl View Post
    i know the greeks didn't speak english. so the original wording would translate to our words in english, correct?
    The words would be translated "unto the ages of ages." You will find that the ancient Jews were not precise in dealing with time spans or numbers of people like we are today.
    Last edited by Ickisrulz; 09-12-2020 at 08:04 PM.

  19. #79
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    221
    so, then, what does "unto the ages of ages" transfer to in your words.

  20. #80
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    3,820
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    .....There are many people who "believe" that are not saved (see James). There are those who have accepted the Gospel message as fact, but for whatever reason will not commit to God. I would imagine these people would worry about hell.
    Also see Mat 7:24-27.

    Ah well, it was worth a try but there are none so blind as those who are determined to not see.

Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check