Do you believe in hell?

[flyingmonkey35]

i'm not condemning you, it's God who will do that. i just can't understand where you get that false info from. i was really trying to guide you in the right direction but it seems i wont be able to. i'm sorry.. the bible warns of false teachers

The simple fact that you feel the need to guide me to your path. What you conisder the right path tells me you could not accept my idea. And only yours must be correct.

Im sorry but holy texts. All of them are just tools used to control the sheep.

While they hold moral sounding vaules they must not be taking as fact.

That would be its own topic all allone.

I have a diffrent belif in a god then you do.

I dont have any issue with other people beliving what they want.

Im sad that you cant do that.

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[a danl]

proverbs chapter 18 verse 7 "a fool's mouth is his ruin, and his lips are a snare to his soul"

[dtknowles]

i'm not condemning you, it's God who will do that. i just can't understand where you get that false info from. i was really trying to guide you in the right direction but it seems i wont be able to. i'm sorry.. the bible warns of false teachers

Just like those who believe the Bible was written by God because the Bible says so, they don't understand that, of course the Bible would warn against believing anything other than the Bible.

This is the same kind of techniques that cults use to indoctrinate their following.

They all say, our sacred documents come from God and you must not believe anything else.

Any religion or belief that says its our way or you are bound for hell or such is a trap not a path to salvation.

Tim

[ioon44]

If you don't believe in the God of the bible then which god do you believe in?

[Ickisrulz]

Just like those who believe the Bible was written by God because the Bible says so, they don't understand that, of course the Bible would warn against believing anything other than the Bible.

This is the same kind of techniques that cults use to indoctrinate their following.

They all say, our sacred documents come from God and you must not believe anything else.

Any religion or belief that says its our way or you are bound for hell or such is a trap not a path to salvation.

Tim

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Tim 3:16-17

I always thought that to use the Bible to prove that it came from God was a poor argument. That is circular logic. If one looks closely at the passage it can be seen that it gives the definition of Scripture (i.e., God-breathed) and outlines its purpose (i.e., teach, rebuke, correct, etc.).

As far as proof that the Bible is God's word, this cannot be proven in a scientific way. But those of us who are believers know this to be true. The following passages are reality for many of us.

"If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority." John 7:17

"My sheep hear my voice." John 10:27

By now we should all realize that you are not a believer and leave you alone. Arguing with you is a waste of time and energy.

[1hole]

"My sheep hear my voice." John 10:27

By now we should all realize that you are not a believer and leave you alone. Arguing with you is a waste of time and energy.

AND, continuing to do so is contrary to scripture; something about pearls and swine. (Mat 7:6)

[a danl]

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Tim 3:16-17

I always thought that to use the Bible to prove that it came from God was a poor argument. That is circular logic. If one looks closely at the passage it can be seen that it gives the definition of Scripture (i.e., God-breathed) and outlines its purpose (i.e., teach, rebuke, correct, etc.).

As far as proof that the Bible is God's word, this cannot be proven in a scientific way. But those of us who are believers know this to be true. The following passages are reality for many of us.

"If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority." John 7:17

"My sheep hear my voice." John 10:27

By now we should all realize that you are not a believer and leave you alone. Arguing with you is a waste of time and energy.

amen. i don't know why tim has to keep jumping in on these conversations. he has no argument to add. he has been led by his own understanding and not God's.

[flyingmonkey35]

amen. i don't know why tim has to keep jumping in on these conversations. he has no argument to add. he has been led by his own understanding and not God's.

The topic is "Do you belive in Hell"

Not do you agree with my verison of hell.

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[exile]

Come on guys, let's not all gang up on Tim! We like him, he is a true sceptic, a seeker, and let's face the truth, without him this theological sub-forum would be boring! (Too many commas in that last sentence.) How are you Tim? Well I hope!

exile

[RogerDat]

Hell gets a lot of play in later new testament and some in the old, Jesus wasn't real big on selling hades as the outcome of not following me.

Seems to me that the idea of universal salvation put forth in the new testament leaves open that being with god in eternity is assured. Period. The new testament has several passages that speak of the sacrifice being for all mankind without regard to actions or worthiness of salvation. There are of course other statements that imply actions required. Holy book not contradict itself then it probably lacks credibility.

The point is it seems entirely possible we are experiencing hades here and now. Certainly a world full of misery and avoidable pain and suffering. Caused by mans actions, which are often far from grace to put it mildly. If one excepts that universal salvation exists, then it follows that damnation at least as a state of not being spiritually one with god exists.

But it boils down to life on earth being separated by a veil from god (greater or lesser as one believes) qualifies, and if salvation is universal. The sacrifice truly is for all mankind, the sins of the "world" are being absolved... It makes sense that we move on from "the bad place" to the "good place".

Also easier to reconcile with a loving and merciful god I might add. Certainly easier to reconcile than you didn't believe right for the short time you were alive so I'm tossing you into a burning pit for all eternity. Seems to sort of fall short of the whole loving and merciful descriptions. Of course there are others. God sending bears to rend the children who made fun of his prophets bald head come to mind as seeming less than merciful.

I sort of figure different times and peoples maybe required different messages. If I send a prophet to these people they need to know to be respectful or the message won't get known. Idea that the message is worth "collateral" damage but I still find that one hard to reconcile with an all powerful god not being able to find something a little better than sending in the bears on young folks for being rude.

In the end I always come back to who am I to actually understand the entity that made all that is was or ever will be? People have faith because absolute certainty is not provided. If an all powerful entity wanted us to have certainty I'm thinking monolith on every continent of incredible size, that never wears or fades, with the absolute truth in all languages written on the sides would have done the trick. For a kicker the truth appears in Esperanto when that got invented as a language. Just saying if we were supposed to know god could have left no room for any doubt. All would have known the same truths.

So perhaps this is hades, and the small glimpses of truth we have to take on faith are the love and mercy that make it bearable so we can experience an additional measure of the goodness this world has to offer. Far from gods presence as it might be.

[a danl]

i find it amazing that some people have just enough information to make them dangerous as they speak, and that some people reading these statements who are weak in faith and knowledge of the truth of the bible have a tendency to believe what they read...........i say beware that there is a hell, and i would not want to lean on my own understanding of the subject, rather learn to trust what the word of God says.

[dtknowles]

If you don't believe in the God of the bible then which god do you believe in?

There is but one God. The creator of all that is.

I think you are really asking what book do I believe. None of the or all of them. I believe a little from most of them and none of them completely. The bible is really pretty good but it is still a work of historical fiction.

Tim

[dtknowles]

i find it amazing that some people have just enough information to make them dangerous as they speak, and that some people reading these statements who are weak in faith and knowledge of the truth of the bible have a tendency to believe what they read...........i say beware that there is a hell, and i would not want to lean on my own understanding of the subject, rather learn to trust what the word of God says.

Which words of God. He has written very many books of scripture beside the bible.

Tim

[dtknowles]

Come on guys, let's not all gang up on Tim! We like him, he is a true sceptic, a seeker, and let's face the truth, without him this theological sub-forum would be boring! (Too many commas in that last sentence.) How are you Tim? Well I hope!

exile

I am well, how about you? Thanks for asking. I think we are going to dodge a third hurricane this year, so far. Knock wood. Such an ungodly superstition

They can't really gang up on me they have to take turns. They are so smug. Think the know so much. They should take their faith and treasure it. If only we all could be so sure. You see when you are sure it does not matter if you are right or not, nothing will change. Being sure is no guarantee of anything but it does help ease one's mind.

Tim

[1hole]

They can't really gang up on me they have to take turns. They are so smug.

Well, the web is a single file activity so we all have to stand in line, don't we?

You see when you are sure it does not matter if you are right or not, nothing will change. Being sure is no guarantee of anything but it does help ease one's mind.

That sword cuts two ways. Its sharp back edge says you're certain that no one else can possibly know more about God than you - and that's really not true!

[Rizzo]

...... I think we are going to dodge a third hurricane this year, so far.

Glad to hear that Tim.
Lately, with all the storms going on by you, I look at the weather map of the storm's paths and could not see why you wouldn't get hammered.
You must be using one of those left over NASA Shuttle Program/Star Trek Force Field Gizmotrons to put a protective dome over your area. <grin>

[RogerDat]

God is god, mans understanding or lack thereof would be of little matter in the workings of the universe. Faith for oneself is a good thing. Men have done much good thoughts words and deeds due to faith. But faith imposed on others tend to be an abomination. Because that is always imposed through the failed creature that man is. No man speaks with the authority of god, yet many claim to.

If god is to be known it is though the seeking, not the imposing. Too often hell seems to be getting bandied about as a way to impose gods will. Or as an excuse for curtailing the rights of others with a different view.

Remember gnostic means seeking the truth to be found where it may be found. The things so many faith traditions have in common argue for those common things to be a revealed and important truth. Where they differ perhaps those are on less solid ground as revealed truth, having had different human authors or edits exert undue influence. Leaving us no way to determine which is the truth and which is the distortion provided by man except through faith or study or prayer or ……

Judgement does seem to be common, acceptance into gods world vs isolation are fairly common themes. However one does have to bear in mind at the time of writing being accepted by the king was to be given access to the city as a residence, to be kept separate was horrible. Banishment, being cast out of the community would be concepts that audience would understand in a way deeper than modern mans is I think. The question is are all these ideas in the bible worth reading? Certainly while one may consider the bible without "error" our understanding of what is said can be and certainly is at times in error. Same can be said of many holy works. Some ideas expressed over the centuries last. Others gain refinement in the fullness of time or due to some wisdom gleaned and shared by the individual.

other times people bend the bible to serve their own will and desires to the detriment of all who fall under those peoples sway or authority. So I say again the ability of man to make this paradise we live on in the vastness of space a hell on earth may be the biggest tragedy

[a danl]

Which words of God. He has written very many books of scripture beside the bible.

Tim

yeah, you're right tim. all 66 of them.

[Txcowboy52]

I believe!

[dtknowles]

Glad to hear that Tim.
Lately, with all the storms going on by you, I look at the weather map of the storm's paths and could not see why you wouldn't get hammered.
You must be using one of those left over NASA Shuttle Program/Star Trek Force Field Gizmotrons to put a protective dome over your area. <grin>

If you look at the aerial photos of New Orleans East after Katrina. The NASA Michoud Assembly Facility and the USDA office complex at Michoud were an island of green surrounded by brown flood waters.



Tim