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Thread: Roll Crimping- how often do we need to?

  1. #1
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    Roll Crimping- how often do we need to?

    I think most people roll crimp too much and too often. Yes it may be needed at times for hunting rounds that risk getting bumped around and for high power tube fed guns. Also maybe to get sufficient powder burn. Most of the time if you are just going to a range to shoot, where I load one at a time, it’s overkill. I have stopped roll crimping and use a light taper crimp, if anything at all. I believe I will have increased case life by doing so. What do others think?

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    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Tighter crimps can help/hurt accuracy with slower powders and help with velocity spread
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  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy DAFzipper's Avatar
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    If you load max charges for revolvers crimp is needed to keep bullets from walking out and binding cylinder rotation. Better burn of powder also. With light loads I've seated wadcutters with my thumb in 38 special and had no problems.

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  4. #4
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    I taper crimp bottle neck rifle casings and rimless pistol casings but I still prefer a roll crimp for a straight wall revolver casing.

    I think part of the key to long brass life is not over working the brass. Enough flare to get the bullet started without shaving lead and just enough crimp to turn the casing into the crimp groove will do the trick on all but heaviest magnums.

    I seat and crimp in two operations, which allows much better control over those operations.

  5. #5
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    Crimp application is another aspect of the reloading process that must be experimented with.
    Single shot firearms may or may not require their cartridges to be crimped.
    Revolvers and tube feed rifle will need some type of crimp applied to a repeatable amount.
    How I apply the crimp is to screw the crimp die in against the raised press ram screw the crimp die down to touch the shell holder. This is the dies maximum crimp position. Looking down at the die body I put a black maker stroke at 12 o’clock. Backing the die out 1 full turn make zero crimp.
    I envision the clock face and turn the die in hour by hour, each time removing the cartridge and examine the crimp. I stop applying crimp when it look right.
    Shooting the firearm at targets may show a need for more or less crimp.
    The reloading log book can record the hour of the day analogy time so the degree of crimp is repeatable.
    Last edited by greenjoytj; 09-07-2020 at 07:36 AM.

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    You don't like the Lee Factory Crimp Dies? I use them now for anything they make them for that I reload for. You can crimp just as light or hard as you desire. If you load something a LFCD isn't available for, then you're pretty well stuck with whatever your seating die will do, roll or taper. You're right in that if you're target shooting at the range and loading them into your rifle one at a time a crimp isn't always necessary. Some seating dies are made to such close tolerances that they give a really tight friction fit anyway.

  7. #7
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    Most of my loads are full house 44 Mag and I have had bullets pull and tie up the cylinder. I like a full roll crimp and bullets with a deep crimp groove.

    I have lapped my RCBS Cowboy Sizer so it does not oversize, the expander just confirms the inside diameter of the brass and adds a bell for the bullet. I get at least 30 reloads before splits get to the 5-10% range.
    Mal

    Mal Paso means Bad Pass, just so you know.

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    I’m not a hand gun shooter, so I didn’t think about the need for a good crimp in a wheel gun, but that makes sense. I just think rolling the brass over that much, if you don’t need to, has got to stretch and thin it each time. I agree it is often needed, but maybe not as much we really need to.

  9. #9
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    I roll crimp all of my revolver loads. In all honesty I'm probably guilty of over crimping. You probably are extending your brass life by lightly taper crimping.

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    I don't load my "plinking" ammo any different than my SD, accurate "target" or hunting ammo. I use the same quality of components and the same "quality" methods, including crimp. I don't worry about case life, because my handloads are loaded to be as consistent as I can make them, whether the target is a soda can at 5 yards or a deer at 105 yards or a bad guy 20 feet on the other side of the room. I have a lot of brass for all my handload calibers, brass is still fairly cheap, and I don't shoot any guns that are obsolete or use cases that run $2.00 each. My "banging" loads are loaded to the same "precision" as my 308 target rounds (that gives me 7/8" groups on a good day).

    Having said all that, I roll crimp, profile crimp, or collet crimp every revolver round the same, regardless of it's intended purpose. I taper crimp all my semi-auto handloads the same, regardless of it's intended purpose (actually I don't crimp at all I just "deflare"). All my rifle rounds that require a crimp are crimped the same. Why would I short cut one handload because it isn't used in a life or death situation, or that 12 point buck is standing still waiting to be turned into venison sausage? Besides, "shortcutting" leads to "sloppy" reloading. Sloppy reloading leads to squibs and KABOOMS...
    Last edited by mdi; 09-07-2020 at 12:43 PM.
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  11. #11
    Boolit Master derek45's Avatar
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    I prefer bullets with a healthy crimp groove.

    I prefer a good roll crimp on revolvers, especially magnum loads.

    I would not shoot H110/win296 without a good roll crimp.



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  12. #12
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    I don't know that there is a simple answer to many variables in cartridges and guns .

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    Can't say I've ever seen anybody anneal straight wall handgun brass. Every time you load and shoot the brass, the hardness changes and how much the brass springs back or doesn't. That affects powder ignition. That crimp helps keep the burn rate more consistent round to round and over time. Especially when you use mixed head stamp range pickup. Please don't believe me and shoot over the chronograph to see for yourself. I shot handgun metallic silhouette for years. Most folks were only concerned with minute of animal. As long as it got knocked over it was good. I managed 1" groups at 100 day in and day out shooting lead out of a 10" barrel.

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    So if you are going to roll crimp, does everyone agree that Lee Factory Roll Crimp die, is the best way to go?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    So if you are going to roll crimp, does everyone agree that Lee Factory Roll Crimp die, is the best way to go?
    I have several brands of crimp dies they all work , I do use Lee more than others I like the way they adjust but they all will do a good roll crimp.

  16. #16
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    I don't think there is any advantage to one roll crimp die over another. As long as you use the roll crimp separately from the bullet seating operation.

    For bottleneck rifles Lee has the collet crimp die that is different than the others. It works really well for my Garand loads. Bolt actions do not get crimped cases.

    My pistols get taper crimped if semi-autos and roll crimped if revolver.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    So if you are going to roll crimp, does everyone agree that Lee Factory Roll Crimp die, is the best way to go?
    No, No, No! For roll crimping 98% of the crimps that come in a plain die set is sufficient, and wanted. More "precise" crimps are available with a Redding Profile Crimp die (a slightly different shape crimp) and some really consistent, accurate crimps can be had with a collet crimp die (I have 3 Lee collet crimp dies). I have not found any reason to post crimp resize any ammo I have assembled in 40+ years, but the experience with the Lee FCD, after I knocked out the carbide sizing ring, were just so-so, nuttin' to write home about.
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  18. #18
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    None of my Lee carbide factory crimp dies post size any revolver loads I load . My fired cases unsized will push past the carbide ring by hand it does not even touch them if it did they would not chamber in my guns anyway.

  19. #19
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    I thought FCD was a cuss word. Didn't know you could use it here.
    Mal

    Mal Paso means Bad Pass, just so you know.

  20. #20
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    I do believe there is a pole on forum for the Lee FCD The die gets a positive response by a big margin.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check