M1 Carbine

[dverna]

A shotgun is the best home defense weapon. The sound of chambering a round most often will make the person flee. Put the right shot in it and you will not kill loved ones on the other side of the wall, but will stop an intruder. You also do not need to rely on sites in the dark. Hope that helps.

It depends.....

If the intruder is a thief, and not high, he should run away

If the intruder wants to kill you, you have revealed your position...not good

At house distances, you still need to aim or point accurately. Look at your pattern at 15-30 ft before thinking spray and pray will get the job done.

[Flophound]

I love the M1 carbine. It's old tech, so that comes with the need of a bit of extra attention (keep it lubed).
It's handy, intuitive to operate, light. The only downside to it (as I see it) isn't even a fault of the gun- the cartridge never really took off outside of that one gun. And that makes for very little incentive for ammo manufacturers to innovate with the cartridge. Which then, in turn, makes the gun appear as an underperformer.

[GhostHawk]

I agree with Josko about the Shotgun. But I keep mine loaded with one up the spout but the action half open. Can not possibly fire, it is as safe as it can be made to be. But if I slide the forearm up slowly it will return to battery without any big noise. Without telling any intruder where I am. Just one small quiet little "snick".

Sneaky perhaps, but its my experience that sneaky keeps a person breathing longer. Sneaky can be a good thing.

I have a light on mine but I should not ever have to use it. I have enough small light sources, nightlights, lighted electrical outlets, etc scattered in enough locations to let me spot and target an intruder.

But the hallway near my bedroom is black as 3 feet up the inside of a cow.
I don't believe in giving away any advantages.

If your not cheating your not playing to win/trying hard enough.

[35 Whelen]

A shotgun is the best home defense weapon. The sound of chambering a round most often will make the person flee. Put the right shot in it and you will not kill loved ones on the other side of the wall, but will stop an intruder. You also do not need to rely on sites in the dark. Hope that helps.

Not poo-pooing a shotgun for home SD at all, but they're are a some misconceptions with regards to pattern and penetration where SD is concerned.

A few years ago I read a post on the subject of home defense with shotguns loaded with birdshot. In the post, someone knew someone, who knew someone, who knew someone that was shot in the chest at very short range (6 feet if memory serves) with a load of #6 birdshot out of a 12 ga. The purported victim waited patiently for the ambulance, was transported to the emergency room where the shot was removed and he was then sent home, supposedly. In an attempt to show the poster that it would be near impossible to survive a shotgun blast to the chest at the range, even one loaded with birdshot, I performed a hasty, informal test by firing a 1 1/4 oz. load of #6 from an I/C choked 12 ga. at a piece of 1 1/8" sub-flooring at 10 and 20 feet-

Entrance-



Exit-



I had pretty good idea what the results would be because as a knuckleheaded kid that grew up in the country roaming the river behind our house with a shotgun, I'd shot at everything imagine able with shotguns and knew that at close range even birdshot turns things inside out. But what I learned from my impromptu test was a couple of things; First, a shotgun, even one with an open choke at 20', fires surprisingly tight patterns and would need to be aimed almost as deliberately as a rifle or handgun. Second, if a 1 1/4 oz. load of #6 will so easily penetrate a 1 1/8" sheet of laminated plywood, a couple of pieces of 1/2" sheetrock wouldn't even come close to stopping it, change that from #6 to buckshot and penetration would be even more dramatic.

Sorry about the digression, back to the subject of the .30 Carbine and its effectiveness or lack thereof.

We gun folks sometimes lose perspective on the subject of cartridges. We seem to forget that cartridges don't actually kill, the bullets launched from these cartridges do. One perfect example is the 10mm Auto. "Uncle" Ted Nugent used his 10mm to take a gemsbock, and wildebeest and of all things a Cape Buffalo, so now anytime the subject of a defensive handgun for anything smaller than a Tyrannosaurus Rex comes up, the 10mm is the most widely recommended cartridge. The heaviest load I could find for this cartridge is 200-220 gr. cast bullets at 1200 fps. I own a couple of 130+ year old 1873 Winchesters in 38-40. Either, loaded with a 192 gr. cast FN bullet and 2.2 grs. of Swiss 3Fg. a hair over 1400 fps. So tell a fellow gun folk you're going buffalo hunting with a 10mm or that you're carrying the same for bear protection while salmon fishing in Alaska, and you're liable to get a grin and two thumbs-ups. Tell them you're going to do the same with a 130 year old Winchester in 38 WCF and they'll probably volunteer their help in the search for your marbles.

And so it has been for years with the .30 Carbine. Loading manuals and magazine articles pretty much state that the cartridges usefulness is for plinking and maybe small game. Then along comes the .327 Federal Magnum (A .31 caliber revolver cartridge) and claims that revolvers so chambered will do marvelous things. Richard Mann seems especially fond of it-

"This means the .327 Federal Mag.’s projectiles will penetrate similar to 125- and 158-gr. hollow-point bullets from .357 Mag. loads. It also means they are very likely going to damage more tissue...." "....it’s clear the cartridge has the right stuff for coyotes, deer and even felonious fiends." americanrifleman.org, April 2010

"The 130-grain hardcast load from Buffalo Bore Ammunition is even suitable for bear defense."- americanrifleman.org, August 2018

"It will perforate a large bear's skull..." Buffalo Bore, of their .327 Hard Cast load

But when you compare the ballistics of these two very similar cartridges, ballistically, the .30 Carbine does roughly at 125-150 yds. what the .327 does at the muzzle.

I think it's pretty well established that the .30 Carbine's "problem" is the FMJRN bullets that have always been loaded in it. Load it with expanding or frangible bullets and I think one reaches an entirely new dimension. I'm not a big fan of gel testing bullets to determine their effectiveness, but there are a few YouTube videos of .30 Carbine tests with 110 gr. SP's and all of them expand well and penetrate quite remarkably considering their lack of sectional density.

I keep one of my carbines in the house for SD.

35W

[jrayborn]

Another thing to consider if you think of such things is that in most of the gun grabbing legislation proposed or implemented on a national level, the .30 M1 Carbine as well as theM1 Garand have been excluded. If more such legislation is passed it may well be that it would be excluded once again.

[samari46]

Mine is a "Blue Sky" Saginaw Gear with a Winchester barrel on it. Although I do have some ball on hand what would be a good cast bullet for the carbine?. And has anyone used the little speer 100gr plinker the one with the half jacket and half lead?. Thanks in advance. Frank

[Larry Gibson]

I used a lot of the Speer 100 gr "Plinker" in the 30 Carbine. I also use a lot more of the Hornady 100 gr half jacket bullet, which I prefer to the Speer. I killed several Blacktail deer and a lot of coyote's with the Hornady loaded over 15.5 gr H110. Runs 1950 - 1970 fps, very accurate and deadly. Have several hundred loaded right now.......

[yovinny]

While I love the M1 carbine and have 4 examples at last count,, the 300 Blackout is really the 21st century's improved version.
It's much cheaper to aquire, shoots much more accurately, capable of using a slew of different bullets weights and designs, and able to push them far beyond anything the M1 carbine could even dream of.
I have the carbines for nostalgia and range fun,, the blackouts for versatility and performance.

[Huntsman52]

A youtuber reviewer / demonstrator Paul Harrell does a great job explaining the M1 Carbine. Also goes into detail on the rumors spread about the cartridge. Does the same type of review for birdshot for HD purposes. Worth a watch and listen carefully as he has a lot of sarcasm that brings a welcome chuckle.

[downzero]

I wish they weren't so expensive! The M1 Carbine is the "pistol caliber carbine" from our grandparents' era. They'd be an exceptional piece at $5-600. Unfortunately all the ones I see are double that. Maybe 20 years from now the prices will come back down to earth.

[charlie b]

As a kid there were barrels at the local surplus store with Mausers, 1903's, Enfields, and M1 Carbines. $30 for the bolt actions and $20 for the Carbines. At the time my new Remington .22 cost $50.

[missionary5155]

While we are on the fun little Carbine... The gas piston nuts come in two styles... early and late. As I understand it the late "recessed type" can be used on any carbine and is supposed to be of more reliable function. Is that the proper understanding ?

[Lloyd Smale]

I used a lot of the Speer 100 gr "Plinker" in the 30 Carbine. I also use a lot more of the Hornady 100 gr half jacket bullet, which I prefer to the Speer. I killed several Blacktail deer and a lot of coyote's with the Hornady loaded over 15.5 gr H110. Runs 1950 - 1970 fps, very accurate and deadly. Have several hundred loaded right now.......

thats good to know larry. I ran into a couple boxes of the 100 grain speer plinkers and was thinking on using them in the BO for deer.

[Hanzy4200]

I have a Underwood, a 1944 I believe? Absolutely love that little thing. The penetration issue is simple. These rifles were handed to troops who had been carrying the Springfield 03 and Garand rifles in 30-06 for 40 years. Compared to a 30-06, yes, it is comparatively weak. Does not mean it is a "underpowered" round. InRange says as much.

[samari46]

Larry and others who responded,thanks for the info. Also those little Ruger carbines were at one time down here very popular for hunting in the swamps. Once they were no longer made and prices started going up and folks couldn't afford one hunters turned to other firearms. Frank

[Cargo]

My favorite Uncle hit the beaches of Italy carrying an M1 carbine. He carried that carbine from Italy all the way to Germany and then all the way back to Texas. As a young kid I grew very fond of that handy little 5.5lb carbine.

In Feb of this year I was perusing the Cabela's Gun Library and they had what turned out to be an unfired AO trade in for $600. Needless to say now my kids are very fond of "The War Baby" and I have a lightweight, nostalgic and effective 5.5lb carbine that is deer, hog and SD capable at 100yds or so. It's also super easy to load for.

[dverna]

Not poo-pooing a shotgun for home SD at all, but they're are a some misconceptions with regards to pattern and penetration where SD is concerned.

A few years ago I read a post on the subject of home defense with shotguns loaded with birdshot. In the post, someone knew someone, who knew someone, who knew someone that was shot in the chest at very short range (6 feet if memory serves) with a load of #6 birdshot out of a 12 ga. The purported victim waited patiently for the ambulance, was transported to the emergency room where the shot was removed and he was then sent home, supposedly. In an attempt to show the poster that it would be near impossible to survive a shotgun blast to the chest at the range, even one loaded with birdshot, I performed a hasty, informal test by firing a 1 1/4 oz. load of #6 from an I/C choked 12 ga. at a piece of 1 1/8" sub-flooring at 10 and 20 feet-

Entrance-



Exit-



I had pretty good idea what the results would be because as a knuckleheaded kid that grew up in the country roaming the river behind our house with a shotgun, I'd shot at everything imagine able with shotguns and knew that at close range even birdshot turns things inside out. But what I learned from my impromptu test was a couple of things; First, a shotgun, even one with an open choke at 20', fires surprisingly tight patterns and would need to be aimed almost as deliberately as a rifle or handgun. Second, if a 1 1/4 oz. load of #6 will so easily penetrate a 1 1/8" sheet of laminated plywood, a couple of pieces of 1/2" sheetrock wouldn't even come close to stopping it, change that from #6 to buckshot and penetration would be even more dramatic.

Sorry about the digression, back to the subject of the .30 Carbine and its effectiveness or lack thereof.

We gun folks sometimes lose perspective on the subject of cartridges. We seem to forget that cartridges don't actually kill, the bullets launched from these cartridges do. One perfect example is the 10mm Auto. "Uncle" Ted Nugent used his 10mm to take a gemsbock, and wildebeest and of all things a Cape Buffalo, so now anytime the subject of a defensive handgun for anything smaller than a Tyrannosaurus Rex comes up, the 10mm is the most widely recommended cartridge. The heaviest load I could find for this cartridge is 200-220 gr. cast bullets at 1200 fps. I own a couple of 130+ year old 1873 Winchesters in 38-40. Either, loaded with a 192 gr. cast FN bullet and 2.2 grs. of Swiss 3Fg. a hair over 1400 fps. So tell a fellow gun folk you're going buffalo hunting with a 10mm or that you're carrying the same for bear protection while salmon fishing in Alaska, and you're liable to get a grin and two thumbs-ups. Tell them you're going to do the same with a 130 year old Winchester in 38 WCF and they'll probably volunteer their help in the search for your marbles.

And so it has been for years with the .30 Carbine. Loading manuals and magazine articles pretty much state that the cartridges usefulness is for plinking and maybe small game. Then along comes the .327 Federal Magnum (A .31 caliber revolver cartridge) and claims that revolvers so chambered will do marvelous things. Richard Mann seems especially fond of it-

"This means the .327 Federal Mag.’s projectiles will penetrate similar to 125- and 158-gr. hollow-point bullets from .357 Mag. loads. It also means they are very likely going to damage more tissue...." "....it’s clear the cartridge has the right stuff for coyotes, deer and even felonious fiends." americanrifleman.org, April 2010

"The 130-grain hardcast load from Buffalo Bore Ammunition is even suitable for bear defense."- americanrifleman.org, August 2018

"It will perforate a large bear's skull..." Buffalo Bore, of their .327 Hard Cast load

But when you compare the ballistics of these two very similar cartridges, ballistically, the .30 Carbine does roughly at 125-150 yds. what the .327 does at the muzzle.

I think it's pretty well established that the .30 Carbine's "problem" is the FMJRN bullets that have always been loaded in it. Load it with expanding or frangible bullets and I think one reaches an entirely new dimension. I'm not a big fan of gel testing bullets to determine their effectiveness, but there are a few YouTube videos of .30 Carbine tests with 110 gr. SP's and all of them expand well and penetrate quite remarkably considering their lack of sectional density.

I keep one of my carbines in the house for SD.

35W

Great post

[ulav8r]

Uncle Charlie used to bird hunt with a Browining Auto 5 20 gauge. Left it on the screened in porch just outside the kitchen door, leaning up against the wall. One weekend several of his grandkids were visiting, Boom. Luckily the muzzle was higher than any of the grandkids. There was a clean hole through the 3/4 inch tongue and groove decking and shingles. Aunt Mildred raked him over the coals and demanded that he never again leave a loaded gun where the kids could get to it.

I was not there at the time, but I did see the hole a few days later. Looked like it had been made by a slug instead of #8 birdshot.