Pressure too high?

[gunauthor]

I finally got around to shooting my new CVA Hunter 20 gauge slug gun the other day and had a problem. I had planned to hunt with a Ballistic Products Dangerous Game slug (lead projectile with plastic wad attached). I loaded five shells using BPs own recipe which consisted of a new Fiocchi primed hull, the DGS slug, 25 grains of Longshot powder, and an overshot card with a roll crimp (I chose this load as it was 3 grains lighter than the second load which contained 28 grains). When fired it produced a healthy kick and the shell was stuck in place. After punching it out with a cleaning rod, I noticed that the brass was bulged where the extractor cut-out would have been. When I got home, I took one of the 4 remaining rounds and cut it apart to weigh the powder charge: it was 25 grains (when I loaded them I weighed every charge, but thought I might have screwed up and set up my RCBS beam scale wrong). I wrapped the fired hull up and sent it to BP to get their opinion. When I returned to the range the next day, I brought a box of Winchester foster slugs and some Hornady sabot shells. Both worked perfectly..... Any ideas where I went wrong ?

gunauthor

[jsizemore]

Did BP give you a loaded shell length? Tighter bore then BP test barrel? Scale calibration?

Maybe you could reduce powder charge a bit and try again.

[faustus]

Gunauthor,

so I just had a look in my Slug Loading manual from BP and the 25 grain of Longshot recipe for the DGS is in there. The pressure for that load is listed as 10500 PSI.

2 3/4" shell ... and not a 3 inch shell .... right?

Ajay (SuperBlazingSabots) on this forum did extensive tests with Fiocchi hulls and his observation was that Fiocchi hulls are one of the weakest hulls out there and that they show pressure signs the earliest and just around max pressure. And my observations would support his findings .... I am getting pressure signs with Fiocchi hulls where other hulls still work fine.

He would work up a load with Fiocchi hulls and until he was starting to get pressure signs and he stopped there. Then switched to a Federal hull .... a much stronger hull ... made sure the load worked fine in the Federal hull .... and called it a day. That was his hunting load.

Your load might be just around max pressure .... might even still be below max pressure ... but your Fiocchi hulls are already showing pressure signs.

My suggestion would be ... try to reduce the powder load by 5 to 8 grains ... or something like this ... and try again ... and follow Ajay's method ... increasing the powder charge gradually and test every time ... and till you get first pressure signs with the Fiocchi hulls .... but stay below the published 28 grain of Longshot (11100 PSI).

Once you reach that point where pressure signs appear .... you can then switch to a stronger straight wall hull .... like Federal ... or use a load with your Fiocchi hulls that is just below that point.

Hope this helps ...
Faustus

p.s.: The 25 grains of Longshot in a Federal hull might just work fine ...

[megasupermagnum]

I agree, Fiocchi hulls are too soft. Some guns work better than others, but as you found in yours, the extractor allows too much unsupported case. My H&R ultra slug hunter is the same, cases bulge into the extractor slot. Unfortunately Ballistic Products continues to push these inferior quality hulls.

You can get them to work, but you will need to back off the powder, and work back up until you run into the problem again. Alternatively you could switch to a Federal hull, but you will need to be mindful of which primer you use.

[gunauthor]

Thanks Faustus and megasupermagnum, I was hoping it was something simple (and that I didn't screw up). I will do as you suggest and I'll save the Fiocchi hulls for plinking.

[farmbif]

did you email the curmudgeon about it

[bakerjw]

Did you happen to shoot it through a chronograph?

[Blood Trail]

Same thing happened to me with three different 20 GA slug guns using published data for the slugsrus hammerhead slugs.

I’ll load some up and run them on my pressure trace 2.

Wonder if it’s a 20 GA thing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[megasupermagnum]

No, they do it in 12 gauge as well. I haven't had any problems in 16 gauge, but it seems most load data for 16 only tops out at 9-10,000 PSI. 20 gauge is routinely loaded to 12,000 psi, and 12 gauge goes right up to 11,500 psi for many slug loads. It seems Fiocchi gives up the ghost around that 10,000 psi mark.

I've had loads tested by Tom Armbrust that went all the way to 14,500 psi with a Federal hull. I tried one just to see, and the Federal hulls are unfazed at that pressure.

[gunauthor]

Good idea farmbif, I hadn't thought of that. I am looking forward to what they have to say about the fired hull I sent to them.

[Greg G]

Well this is sad to hear as I bought about 500 new primed Fiocchi 12 gauge hulls recently.

Edited to add: I found 1000 Federal maroon hulls at Graf's that are on the way to me now.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings, I personally love Fiocchi hulls for all my loads and switch over to Federal hulls for dangerous game hunting only.
Its far better to deal with a known devel and work around it than an unknown devil not knowing when it will fail in the field.
I only use Fiocchi hulls for all my load testing and developing. I can easily switch my primers to 209A and they are a great fit.






As a good loader we need to get to know our components and how they perform.

Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings friends, I feel Fiocchi hulls are a blessing to us loaders as they are the best hulls for load developingand non-dangerous game hunting loads like for deer.
When going after big game hunting then too I would use them while developing high power loads and right before venturing out I'll prefer to switch over to Federal hulls.
I spent a lot of time testing them in the field and got to know how they behave.
No, they are not soft, rather tell a tale.
I simply love them !

Faustus, I felt good reading your comments, thank you for making me feel good.

**--** Knowing Pressure is our friend. Higher pressures lead to more consistent, cleaner burning loads.
** Roll crimping produces lower pressures due to less resistance from the roll crimp.
I had early on switched to fold crimp in 1970's while developing our loads and to make it easier on my friends not having to go out and buy yet another tool ( Roll Crimper )

Times sure are bad and our road is very bumpy for its made in China and we see no end in sight !

We all need to feel good and do good by others.
Sure feels good helping my friends with what I learned.
Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots