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Thread: Mining lead

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Mining lead

    Well im about to go berserk with the cost of lead on the net and theres none to be had around here unless i go to kalispell and i dont know what theyd charge over there. I refuse to pay a premium for something that is supposed to save me money. I was getting about 40lbs for 20 bucks until this year now that source is gone and im gonna go mad if i dont get some soon. So now thats out of the way i know it can be found in the cabinet mtns and im seriously pondering goin out there and hauling it back. has anyone here ever pulled the stuff from the ground and if so id like to hear their experience on how they located it and if it was actually usable. The gold here is usually sulfated from what i have been told and im not sure if lead in the ground can be sulfated or not .
    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

  2. #2
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    BigAlofPa.'s Avatar
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    There was someone mining for lead at the gun club. The berms behind the targets were dug up.
    One round at a time.
    Member of the NRA,GOA and FAOC. Gun clubs Zerby rod and gun club. Keystone Fish and Game Association.

  3. #3
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    So, like real mining of ore and truly smelting it down. Is that what you are thinking? Here "mining" consists of picking up bullets after it rains from the berm..and then rendering it from the dirt and jackets, not true smelting by any means. Which I have been doing for two days now and am caught up. All my lead alloy is in saleable form in case I don't get home one of these days and My Wife has to get rid of my stuff. Would you have to stake a claim and comply with EPA regs? I had a neighbor girl come over and ask what I was doing and I told her I was melting some metal. Lead by name tends to set people to panic mode around here because of the Flint fiasco.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAlofPa. View Post
    There was someone mining for lead at the gun club. The berms behind the targets were dug up.
    I was thinking lead ore found in natural deposits the range here is ran by morons so i dont go there. Most of my county is a shooting range anyways cause 95 percent of it is wilderness and national forest. Example every thing in green is national forest not including state landsClick image for larger version. 

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ID:	267313 and this is what most of the county looks likeClick image for larger version. 

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    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    toallmy's Avatar
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    I don’t think it’s going to work out for you.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frkelly74 View Post
    So, like real mining of ore and truly smelting it down. Is that what you are thinking? Here "mining" consists of picking up bullets after it rains from the berm..and then rendering it from the dirt and jackets, not true smelting by any means. Which I have been doing for two days now and am caught up. All my lead alloy is in saleable form in case I don't get home one of these days and My Wife has to get rid of my stuff. Would you have to stake a claim and comply with EPA regs? I had a neighbor girl come over and ask what I was doing and I told her I was melting some metal. Lead by name tends to set people to panic mode around here because of the Flint fiasco.
    I wouldn't think i would have to stake a claim as long as im just messing around on a shale slide and not in a river but i may be wrong. Epa can cram it Here we could care less what the epa thinks there lucky we allow em what freedoms they do have up at the vermiculite mine because of the asbestos crap they have been sticking there nose into most want em gone.
    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    There's a couple towns here in NE Oklahoma that were long ago abandoned due to the leaching of lead into the local water source from the yuge piles of overburden from the mines. I'm sure the wouldn't notice one guy coming in and rummaging through the piles.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy adcoch1's Avatar
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    Might be easier to go look at craigslist in lake county and find a cheap sail boat to steal the keel. I am sure it would be cheaper, quicker, and a lot easier to go that route than full on lead ore mining. But I like how you think...
    "Give me liberty, or give me death!" Patrick Henry ,March 23, 1775

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adcoch1 View Post
    Might be easier to go look at craigslist in lake county and find a cheap sail boat to steal the keel. I am sure it would be cheaper, quicker, and a lot easier to go that route than full on lead ore mining. But I like how you think...
    Lead is supposed to be every where around here i was told if i head down to cherry Creek i could find it on the surface along with some mercury. If i remember right i thought someone said it could be found where the silver veins run. There is a old abandoned lead mine down near trout creek but i dont want to go that far if i dont have to
    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    You will not find a vein of lead, your going to find ore mixed with several other minerals. This would all have to be smelted then separated in means you can not do safely or efficiently. It's going to cost you a lot more than $1lb lead is selling for in S & S.

    https://www.nuclead.com/leadmaterials/

    https://www.essentialchemicalindustr...tals/lead.html

  11. #11
    Boolit Master elmacgyver0's Avatar
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    The question is how did the pioneers get the lead for their bullets?
    They did not have big commercial smelting operations but yet somehow they had lead bullets.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Oh yeah they did, look up some of the old blast furnaces in the Adirondacks...

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmacgyver0 View Post
    The question is how did the pioneers get the lead for their bullets?
    They did not have big commercial smelting operations but yet somehow they had lead bullets.
    Most of that lead was closer to the surface as well as a byproduct of mining gold & silver.

    "The most important lead ore is galena (PbS). Other important ores, such as cerrusite (PbCO3) and anglesite (PbSO4), may be regarded as weathered products of galena and are usually found nearer the surface.

    The primary manufacture of lead involves three stages:
    a) ore concentration
    b) smelting
    c) refining Lead and zinc ores (usually sphalerite, ZnS) often occur together and may also contain silver, copper and gold. The ore has first to be separated from clays and other silicates ('gangue') after which the lead ore and the zinc ore are separated.

    The process used is froth flotation, a succession of stages each delivering a greater concentration of the lead ore. The ore, containing gangue (which typically contains 3-8% lead) is ground with water to a particle size similar to that of fine sand (<0.25 mm). This is then mixed with water and a frothing agent (a detergent) and is violently agitated by air to form a fine suspension with a froth of bubbles on the top. The process is carried out in a series of tanks. As the lead and zinc minerals are less readily wetted than the gangue, they adhere to the air bubbles which are carried to the surface. The rock particles sink and the lead and zinc ores are skimmed off.

    Then the lead ore is separated from the zinc ore. A chemical called a depressant is added which is soluble in water (for example, zinc sulfate) and the zinc ore sinks and the lead ore is skimmed off. Later, a chemical such as copper(II) sulfate is added and the zinc ore now floats and is skimmed off.

    The lead ore concentrate from the flotation tanks now contains about 50% lead and ca 0.1% of silver, a relatively small but valuable amount.

    (b) Smelting

    Smelting is usually a two-stage process as described here, although single-stage methods with lower energy use and emissions are also used.
    After mixing with limestone the filtered concentrated ore is roasted in air or oxygen-enriched air on a moving belt. Most of the sulfide is converted to lead(II) oxide:

    Sulfur dioxide gas can then be cleaned and used to make sulfuric acid.

    The lead(II) oxide is heated and made into lumps, a process known as sintering. The lumps (the sinter) are crushed and sorted to a suitable size for subsequent treatment in a blast furnace, similar in construction to those for making iron but smaller.

    The graded sinter (each lump about the size of a fist) is mixed with approximately 7% of its mass in coke and limestone. The coke is added for two purposes, one as the reducing agent and the other as a source of heat when it reacts with the air which, as in the manufacture of iron is pumped into the furnace. The limestone provides material for the flux containing the impurities, the slag. The mixture is fed into the top of the blast furnace, and the lead(ll) oxide is reduced to molten lead. Carbon and carbon monoxide, produced from the coke, are the reducing agents:

    The molten lead is tapped off from the base of the furnace and either cast into, typically, 4 tonne ingots or put into a 'holding kettle' which keeps the metal molten for the refining process.

    The product contains about 99.5% lead, the remaining 0.5% being mostly antimony and silver with smaller amounts of other metals, including gold. Because it contains silver and gold at this stage, the lead is referred to as bullion lead.

    The fluxes form a molten slag of metal oxides and silicates which floats on top. The slag contains much of the zinc remaining in the ore and is treated later to produce metallic zinc.

    Smelting can also be done using a lance through which oil and oxygen-enriched air pass at high speed forming turbulent conditions. There are several such processes operating under names such as Isasmelt, Ausmelt and Sirosmelt. The one stage, Isasmelt, process is discussed at the end of this unit.
    (c) Refining

    The bullion is heated to just above its melting point. Solid copper and copper sulfide rise to the surface and are skimmed off.

    Arsenic is then removed by stirring the lead with an air blast and skimming off the resulting slag which contains arsenic oxides.

    Silver is removed by a technique known as the Parkes process. Approximately 2% zinc is added to the lead and a silver-rich zinc crust forms and is removed. More zinc is then added at 740 K (its mp is 693 K) and the bath cooled to just above its melting point. During cooling a solid silver/zinc crust separates, rises to the surface and is removed continuously.

    The Parkes process depends on the following:

    lead and zinc are almost immiscible just above their melting points
    silver is much more soluble in zinc than in lead
    silver/zinc alloys have higher melting points than pure zinc.

    At 863 K zinc is removed by transferring the lead to a 'dezincing kettle'. At this stage the desilvered lead contains about 0.6% zinc and 0.0004% silver. Dezincing is carried out by vacuum distillation at 860 K when the zinc vaporises.

    Finally, all traces of antimony and zinc are removed by mixing sodium hydroxide into molten lead at 760 K (its melting point is 600 K). The resulting sodium zincate and antimonate form a skin on the surface of the molten lead which is skimmed off. The refined lead is of 99.99% purity."

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NyFirefighter357 View Post
    Most of that lead was closer to the surface as well as a byproduct of mining gold & silver.

    "The most important lead ore is galena (PbS). Other important ores, such as cerrusite (PbCO3) and anglesite (PbSO4), may be regarded as weathered products of galena and are usually found nearer the surface.

    The primary manufacture of lead involves three stages:
    a) ore concentration
    b) smelting
    c) refining Lead and zinc ores (usually sphalerite, ZnS) often occur together and may also contain silver, copper and gold. The ore has first to be separated from clays and other silicates ('gangue') after which the lead ore and the zinc ore are separated.

    The process used is froth flotation, a succession of stages each delivering a greater concentration of the lead ore. The ore, containing gangue (which typically contains 3-8% lead) is ground with water to a particle size similar to that of fine sand (<0.25 mm). This is then mixed with water and a frothing agent (a detergent) and is violently agitated by air to form a fine suspension with a froth of bubbles on the top. The process is carried out in a series of tanks. As the lead and zinc minerals are less readily wetted than the gangue, they adhere to the air bubbles which are carried to the surface. The rock particles sink and the lead and zinc ores are skimmed off.

    Then the lead ore is separated from the zinc ore. A chemical called a depressant is added which is soluble in water (for example, zinc sulfate) and the zinc ore sinks and the lead ore is skimmed off. Later, a chemical such as copper(II) sulfate is added and the zinc ore now floats and is skimmed off.

    The lead ore concentrate from the flotation tanks now contains about 50% lead and ca 0.1% of silver, a relatively small but valuable amount.

    (b) Smelting

    Smelting is usually a two-stage process as described here, although single-stage methods with lower energy use and emissions are also used.
    After mixing with limestone the filtered concentrated ore is roasted in air or oxygen-enriched air on a moving belt. Most of the sulfide is converted to lead(II) oxide:

    Sulfur dioxide gas can then be cleaned and used to make sulfuric acid.

    The lead(II) oxide is heated and made into lumps, a process known as sintering. The lumps (the sinter) are crushed and sorted to a suitable size for subsequent treatment in a blast furnace, similar in construction to those for making iron but smaller.

    The graded sinter (each lump about the size of a fist) is mixed with approximately 7% of its mass in coke and limestone. The coke is added for two purposes, one as the reducing agent and the other as a source of heat when it reacts with the air which, as in the manufacture of iron is pumped into the furnace. The limestone provides material for the flux containing the impurities, the slag. The mixture is fed into the top of the blast furnace, and the lead(ll) oxide is reduced to molten lead. Carbon and carbon monoxide, produced from the coke, are the reducing agents:

    The molten lead is tapped off from the base of the furnace and either cast into, typically, 4 tonne ingots or put into a 'holding kettle' which keeps the metal molten for the refining process.

    The product contains about 99.5% lead, the remaining 0.5% being mostly antimony and silver with smaller amounts of other metals, including gold. Because it contains silver and gold at this stage, the lead is referred to as bullion lead.

    The fluxes form a molten slag of metal oxides and silicates which floats on top. The slag contains much of the zinc remaining in the ore and is treated later to produce metallic zinc.

    Smelting can also be done using a lance through which oil and oxygen-enriched air pass at high speed forming turbulent conditions. There are several such processes operating under names such as Isasmelt, Ausmelt and Sirosmelt. The one stage, Isasmelt, process is discussed at the end of this unit.
    (c) Refining

    The bullion is heated to just above its melting point. Solid copper and copper sulfide rise to the surface and are skimmed off.

    Arsenic is then removed by stirring the lead with an air blast and skimming off the resulting slag which contains arsenic oxides.

    Silver is removed by a technique known as the Parkes process. Approximately 2% zinc is added to the lead and a silver-rich zinc crust forms and is removed. More zinc is then added at 740 K (its mp is 693 K) and the bath cooled to just above its melting point. During cooling a solid silver/zinc crust separates, rises to the surface and is removed continuously.

    The Parkes process depends on the following:

    lead and zinc are almost immiscible just above their melting points
    silver is much more soluble in zinc than in lead
    silver/zinc alloys have higher melting points than pure zinc.

    At 863 K zinc is removed by transferring the lead to a 'dezincing kettle'. At this stage the desilvered lead contains about 0.6% zinc and 0.0004% silver. Dezincing is carried out by vacuum distillation at 860 K when the zinc vaporises.

    Finally, all traces of antimony and zinc are removed by mixing sodium hydroxide into molten lead at 760 K (its melting point is 600 K). The resulting sodium zincate and antimonate form a skin on the surface of the molten lead which is skimmed off. The refined lead is of 99.99% purity."
    Second thought i know how to smelt silver ...hmmm
    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

  15. #15
    Boolit Master elmacgyver0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozark mike View Post
    Second thought i know how to smelt silver ...hmmm
    On a plus side.
    Those silver bullets are good for werewolves.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Yeah but i dont think they will fill out and they dont weigh enough
    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    S&S prices at around a dollar a pound plus shipping is more than what you were paying, but it's an option.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin c View Post
    S&S prices at around a dollar a pound plus shipping is more than what you were paying, but it's an option.
    I may end up goin that route though i havent saw any for that price lately. But when youre addicted to 500 grain projectiles that gets expensive in a hurry 50 lbs = 700 boolits. I guess i may have to give up the 45-70s for awhile and buy a 22-250. But that thing eats copper not lead so im still screwed
    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozark mike View Post
    Yeah but i dont think they will fill out and they dont weigh enough
    Neither of my pots, LEE, Lyman, or RCBS quite reach 1750 degrees. Dang. How do I rewire for more heat?

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy McFred's Avatar
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    You don't want to have to pay for alloy, but you have the time and energy to go prospect, dig ore and smelt it? You're nuts.

    I think you'd be better off finding a part time job and paying money for mail-order alloy unless you're approaching the project as a hobby/time-sink.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
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