Groo here
For those who think a M-10 CAN'T take a 357 due to how long it is,,,, the 38spec and 357 spec is almost the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The cylinder is the same size in a M-10 /M-13/M-64/M-65 AND M-28 357 Highway Patrolman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is what I want.
I want him to try firing my 20 gauge mossberg with soft lead round balls that I can load low enough that it is a ***** cat that will still shoot through any deer we have in Minnesota at 40 yards or less. I can put a pad on it if he wants. If he can't hold it up long enough with his bad left arm to get a shot don't beat himself up over it.
None of us are starving. Deer hunting is not for feeding ourselves. Never has been. Neither have any of us ever hunting for the big rack.
We've always hunted for the fun of hanging out with our buddies. Walking farms that we have walked every year for 40 years of hunting. Eating in the nieghborhood greasy spoon restaraunts at noon. Telling stories and reminding each other of previous hunts. Dad would insist we ate at the restaraunts because we had to eat but mostly he watched the fat 60 year old guys with purple faces from once-a-year exercising calm down and catch a break. Dad and another of our group were over 80 and still hunting. They would be set up next to their pickups on the end of drives. They couldn't walk much anymore and they knew their limitations but man did they have fun!
I want my friend to not shoot any kind of pistol at deer because he doesn't practice enough. He hasn't visualized what a deer looks like over the sights on a pistol. Pistol hunting deer is not something people should do without a lot of practicing.
If he can't take a shot at a deer because of his limitations who cares? What he gets is a few experiences- hopefully- that he can talk about to everyone he meets. He can get outside and do some walking in the edges of swamps, woods and fields at dawn and dusk and actually see things that he doesn't see from his pickup
We had two guys in our group who hated each so bad they'd sit across from each other in the restaraunts as far apart from each other as they could get. One would sit with his shoulder against the table drinking coffee while the other would sit facing the other way despising each other so much they'd try their best not to even look at each other. The rest of us would look at the two of them acting like kindergartners and laugh out loud
Thou must wear thy spectacles when reading the verniers...Originally Posted by Groo
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
Got to jump in here. The FRAMES are the same - including the heat treat. So, yes, it IS possible to re- make a model 10 into a .357 mag. That is- a later Model 10 - NEVER one made before 1957. HOWEVER, the cylinders are NOT THE SAME. A Model 10 retro- fitted with a .357 mag cylinder (the barrel would need heavy work to accomodate the longer cylinder) - is a viable prospect. But, re-boring a 38 spl Model 10 cylinder to fit magnum cartridges is ASKING for a blow-up. The steel specs on the cylinders are different, as is the heat treating. So - DON'T DO IT. If you must modify the gun, have it re-built properly into a Franken-mod 10/357. NOT ANY OTHER WAY !!!
In a word NO. The heat treatment of the cylinder is probably different. It is just a bad idea all around. And besides the difference in performance is pretty insubstantial with cast boolits or any other non-expanding bullet. I've done the tests on gel. With a quality expanding bullet like the Hornady XTP the 357 offers significantly greater effective range, but only slightly better expansion/penetration, which are factors more related to bullet weight and diameter than to velocity.
What is your source for that claim? S&W? Ha! Do you drive a VW diesel also?
I cannot speak to current production, but in the 1980s that certainly was not the case. This being based upon lab analysis in which structure and chemistry of failed revolvers was examined by the government. Also included cylinders being blown because they were not properly heat treated. I view the corporate honesty of S&W as being on a par with Volkswagen.
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
S&W is notorious for running too much cartridge in too little platform. It took them 45 years to FINALLY get the 357 Magnum package correct with the L-frame.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
You do know that they started with the large (44 caliber size) N-frame 357, then managed to downsize it to the small-medium frame K-frame (38 caliber size), then then introduced a new L-frame because people were ruining their K-frames running bad loads through it. They also introduced a J-frame (small 32 caliber size) 357. I've owned and shot cast through all four: a model 28-2, 19-3, 686+-6, and 60-18. Guess which one is my favorite? The 19-3!S&W is notorious for running too much cartridge in too little platform. It took them 45 years to FINALLY get the 357 Magnum package correct with the L-frame.
My theory is that "the issue" is almost entirely due to 125 grain and lighter weight jacketed bullets run at high velocities with excessive charges of slow burning powders. Just a bad combination of bullet slamming the forcing cone at high speed (causes crack) and loads of hot gas pouring through the gap behind it (causes erosion). This type of loading was popular in the 1970s into the 1980s which is when these problems were reported in significant numbers. The K-mags had been around for 15 years and knowledgeable reloaders had evaluated them and found no problems, but they weren't putting 18+ grains of 2400 behind a 125 or 110 grain JHP either.
When loaded with 140 grain and heavier bullets, which the 357 should be anyway, there are few reports of problems. And almost no reports of problems using post 1995 SAMMI spec loads or less. My favorite load is 158s, particularly the RCBS 358-158-SWCGC or the MP-359-HammerHP the with 14 grains of 2400 or the 358429 or MP-359 Hammer 170 with 13.5 for full power loads and 6 grains of Unique for basically a 38+P+ type load which does about whatever I want it to.
I've been running my K-frame on almost exclusively a diet of modern 357 loads(capped at 35KPSI or less), which I call 357 medium, for years now with almost no noticeable effect except for finish wear. I have an L frame too...TOO BIG. I hardly shoot it anymore and carry it less. J-Frame is too small and is pretty hard to hold onto. The K is just right.
Ruger is notorious for making bricks that are too large for a given cartridge IMO. The Security Six was a nifty piece...just a little bigger than the K. It's the only DA Ruger I'd consider. Then they scrapped it all and produced a 357 revolver (GP100) the size of a 44!
If you want to hot rod everything then get an over-sized platform by all means, but hot rodding is a fool's errand. I've done it. Real world performance is seldom impacted by the small improvements one can make within a caliber with a handgun. If you want a normal handgun (not a mini-rifle like Contender, which is a different story) performance improvement increase caliber! You'd be hard pressed to tell any difference between 38 special or 357 on gel using a solid cast bullet from a 4" revolver. Both will make a caliber sized hole all the way through.
Last edited by curioushooter; 09-12-2020 at 11:14 AM.
I’d send you some 166gr Flat nose, 200gr LFN and/or some 220gr FN boolits, all gas checked and lubed, sized to .358” to load for your buddy in .38spl. All are from LBT molds, the 220gr has 2 crimp grooves, one for .38 and one for .357 cases, but the nose was dimensioned for 1.776” OAL so you’d have to seat it to your OAL.
8500' Wet Mountain Valley, Colorado
One option, borrow a 300 AAC barrel for the season then swap that back out and put some other caliber you do want onto it?
If it were me I'd just use a .45, plenty of oomph, and never try to hack an M10 like that as it's just not a good idea.
The southern half of Minnesota is shotgun-pistol only so we can't hunt with rifles.
He claims he can't lift his left arm high enough to shoot a deer with a shotgun. I guarantee if he had a decent deer cross in front of him he could lift his left arm to maximum height and then lean back enough to fire his weapon. If he couldn't his world wouldn't end- he'd have a story to tell. My 20 gauge Mossberg 500 is light enough he could manage it. Especially if he only loaded three or even two shells. I would load all the loads he could practice with with light round ball loads that wouldn't brutalize him with recoil and would be accurate and deadly to 40-50 yards easy. We don't shoot past 40 yards. I've hunted with him for decades and I know he won't take long shots on deer.
He wants a .357 to hunt with his bad shoulder. Personally, I don't think he has any business hunting with a pistol since I believe pistol hunting requires months of practice and dry firing buts thats me and my thinking which has nothing to do with anyone else's hunting plans. Please don't get on me over the joys of pistol hunting because my thought s on the issue are my own. He does practice some with his 9mm, 40mm and 45 acp but its a few shots now and then but not enough to be meaningful.
I want him to get outside and do something. He goes into to his shop, gets the mail and drives around. I worked for and with him for decades and it breaks my heart to see him becoming old, mentally old. I'm afraid he could be giving up.
The only reason I think about a .357 is I have a colt match pistol that was deeply cut to fit a micro sight and won't have a heavy .38 load in my inventory because i worry about the strength of the colt. My friend would be the only one firing a .357 load in it.
I may give him my Contender in .357 max but, again, he won't practice enough to make the choice ethical. I'd be happy to hand him 200 or 300 rounds if he'd shoot them.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-rev...tion-nysp.html
The 10-6 .357 were replaced with the Model 28, then the Model 681.
I bought the gun for $150.00, in the mid 1980's from Ken's Kustom Kartridges in Hubbard, Ohio. It is one of my most accurate revolvers.
https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=227577
Just contributing the the forum knowledge base.
Last edited by Gregorious; 09-16-2020 at 09:25 PM. Reason: added another link
Uh, S&W invented the .357 Magnum. In an N frame. Like God intended.
No no no no....................................
This is a really great post, Gregorious, and thanks for posting it. It doesn't answer all of the questions and statements that have been made it this thread, but the links do provide great information for any collectors or shooters interested in S&W 10-6 or model 13 revolvers.
Elsonted1, find your friend a 6” model 19. They’re available. Problem solved.
Mould forth, and load in peace.
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