Blackhawk confusion

[DougGuy]

All of the mid frames built since 2005, with the smaller "reissue" of the early 1950s grip frame, are only close, they are similar in size as the original grip frames, however grip panels from original 1950s grip frames won't interchange with the new ones. They will fit, just not very well at all.

[contender1]

"Are you sure about that? My understanding is that the 41 and 44 mag Flat Tops are large frame guns."
I may be in error here,,, as I was getting the info from the RENE Guide & it didn't fully specify the frame size except to say it was a FT design. And my main focus is OM Rugers,, and the NM FT guns I was thinking are all on the mid-sized frame.
EDIT; I dug out my OM 357 FT,, and my NM 50th Anniversary .44 Ft, and the mainframe size is different. I don't have a NM .41 FT to double check things with.

EDIT; The grip frames are another topic for sure. The FT models do use a profile that is darn near identical to the original FT's of the early years,, (XR3 g/f's) BUT,, as noted by Doug,, the grip locator pin is not quite in the same location. That causes issues if you try & put NM XR3 grip panels on an OM XR3 g/f.
It can be done with a small amount of grip panel modification.

[Piedmont]

.41 Mag Flattops were on the large frame, and the .45s were on the medium frame. It is no wonder there is confusion.

[curioushooter]

Wow. So I am slightly less confused than before. The one thing I do know is a really dig those 44 Special Rugers.

As far as recoil goes are you shooting these with Skeeter type loads or Keith type? In my 624 (which I've yet to use in double action mode) I've been liking a power level somewhere in between the Skeeter and Keith.

For one reason I never got the happy occurrence of the Skeeter and Keith loads hitting to the same POI which is what supposedly makes that combo so great. In my 6.5" 624 they hit about 6" apart at 25 yards with that interval opening the more loosely I hold. So I decided to just one one ONE LOAD and I found that just under 1100 FPS with the a 250-260 grain SWC to be the best zone. And this can be achieved with safe loads of PowerPistol, Herco, and Blue Dot but not with Unique.

The grip shape, weight balance, and barrel length are different here comparatively. I was wondering what people thought!

Any opinions on Bisley vs. Standard grip?

[Uncle Grinch]

I bought a new FT 44 Spl some time ago and rather shoot it than my 41 or 357. DougGuy just got through honing the cylinder for it. Need to get to the range, but with these 98+ temps, I’ve been holding off.

I’m not really sure of the origin , but I think it’s a Lipsey’s Model.

[evort]

I bought a new FT 44 Spl some time ago and rather shoot it than my 41 or 357. DougGuy just got through honing the cylinder for it. Need to get to the range, but with these 98+ temps, I’ve been holding off.

I’m not really sure of the origin , but I think it’s a Lipsey’s Model.

What size did DougGuy hone it to?

[Uncle Grinch]

Doug did mine at .4325 so I size to .432.

The real advantage is consistency and Doug’s excellent service and turn around time.
You just don’t see that in this day and time very often.

[DougGuy]

Doug did mine at .4325 so I size to .432.

The real advantage is consistency and Doug’s excellent service and turn around time.
You just don’t see that in this day and time very often.

Did you buy this brand new or used? Most of the throats are considerably smaller than .432" when yours came in I pinned it out and basically honed them to match the largest throat, and tried to finish with the same light drag on all, it finished at .4325" I thought maybe someone had gotten hold of the throats before you got it?

Most of the 44s I send out at .4315" for use with .431" and I occasionally get the request for .4305" for use with .430" boolits.

And yes, consistency in throat sizes is the single most important dimension a cylinder can have. You can always size to match throats with a sizing die, or you can let pressure obturate to the throats, either way works, you just want the same diameter because it causes pressure variations which make the gun recoil differently in the shooter's hands from shot to shot. You want that recoil impulse to be as close as you can get it to the same every shot. Consistent throat diameters, every powder charge weighed, consistent crimps with loose and overly tight crimps set aside, you will end up with a consistent batch of ammo that will shrink groups noticeably.

[evort]

Doug did mine at .4325 so I size to .432.

The real advantage is consistency and Doug’s excellent service and turn around time.
You just don’t see that in this day and time very often.

Thank you, Doug did a 629 for me at .4305, I haven't gotten to the range yet to try it out.

I'm using Matt's cast .430 bullets mostly.

[Uncle Grinch]

Doug, I purchased this Ruger new at a local gun shop. It must have came that way from a Ruger as I’ve never had anyone work on it.

[DHDeal]

Curioushooter,
Grip frame preferences are a very personal thing. Some won't have anything to do with the Ruger Bisley grip shape and some can't live with the standard. I'm a Bisley kind of guy. I doubt anyone can help you with this and suggest handling both or at least the Bisley as you mentioned having owned a SBH (I do not like the Dragoon triggerguard at all).

Others have mentioned how much they like the 44 Special Lipsey Ruger's and how accurate they can be. Add me to the list as my SS 4 5/8" Bisley 44 is a keeper. It was an extremely easy gun to find a load for to the point of only deciding on what velocity I wanted the bullets to fly. It's shot every style bullet I've loaded well.

If you get one and want good Walnut grips (who doesn't?), that'll be a custom set. One who posted in this thread does some fine wood fitting!

[curioushooter]

Correct me if I am wrong but the VISUAL TELL that I asked for is the "EARS" on the topstrap. When you guys said flattop that meant nothing to me because I didn't understand how it was any different from a not flattop. They all look flat to me. Now I get it.

That said look at this FLAT TOP 45 COLT.

I suppose these are NOT UP TO THE JOB of so-called "Ruger Only 45 Long Colt loads" that go up to 30kPSI in some cases. Boy that is a hazard! It must be able to withstand the 23kPSI of the 45 Auto though like an N-frame. Has anyone worked out 45 Long Colt loads to 23kPSI for these situations?

I suppose that 44 special, because there is more steel in the cylinder, can take greater pressure (25kPSI at least) in the same platform.

I need to handle a Bisley vs a Regular grip frame. I had a Bisley before and liked it alright. And Keith's #5 has a bisley like frame. And all the custom makers insist on bisley frames. But I am one of the odd few that prefers the S&W Magna grip adapter on the K frames over an oversized target grip. I am quite used to putting my pinky on the butt.

[DougGuy]

I suppose these are NOT UP TO THE JOB of so-called "Ruger Only 45 Long Colt loads" that go up to 30kPSI in some cases. Boy that is a hazard! It must be able to withstand the 23kPSI of the 45 Auto though like an N-frame. Has anyone worked out 45 Long Colt loads to 23kPSI for these situations?

I suppose that 44 special, because there is more steel in the frame, can take greater pressure (25kPSI at least) in the same platform.

Most refer to Brian Pearce's articles in the gun rags listing "tier 2" loads for these medium framed 45 caliber Rugers.

I mentioned the 44 special earlier in this thread you might have missed it.

[white eagle]

I have been looking forever (seemingly)for a Blackhawk Bisley in 44 special
I just scored one off GB and I am stoked
I had one previously and sold it like a DA and have been kickin
myself ever since it was the most accurate handgun I have ever shot,in my hands anyway
can't wait

[curioushooter]

Yea, I have been dwelling on the fact that a 5 1/2" 44 SPL Ruger Blackhawk Bisley is pretty much Keith's #5, arguably the most influential custom revolver ever built. Same caliber, approximate barrel length, adjustable sights, size/weight, and grip shape. Just put some Mastadon ivory, American Holly or imitation grips on it and engrave it so it looks like a squash patch grew out of the steel and it will look just like it. Only the Blackhawk is better having a more robust construction, can safely use all six of its chambers, has more durable coil springs, and is made of better steel. I am sure the handwork is inferior, but that is something that can be changed.

[onelight]

Curioushooter,
Grip frame preferences are a very personal thing. Some won't have anything to do with the Ruger Bisley grip shape and some can't live with the standard. I'm a Bisley kind of guy. I doubt anyone can help you with this and suggest handling both or at least the Bisley as you mentioned having owned a SBH (I do not like the Dragoon triggerguard at all).

Others have mentioned how much they like the 44 Special Lipsey Ruger's and how accurate they can be. Add me to the list as my SS 4 5/8" Bisley 44 is a keeper. It was an extremely easy gun to find a load for to the point of only deciding on what velocity I wanted the bullets to fly. It's shot every style bullet I've loaded well.

If you get one and want good Walnut grips (who doesn't?), that'll be a custom set. One who posted in this thread does some fine wood fitting!

I am the same on the Dragoon grip frame on the SBH I have had 2 and could not adapt to them.
But I do like the shape of the new model flat top 45 but my Bisley 44 special is now my favorite Ruger .
I did not buy a Bisley for many years they felt and looked funny to me , I now know what I was missing . I find it very easy to shoot well.

[Von Dingo]

As you have found,, there is a bit of confusion at times about the different Ruger frames,, and even the grip frames that have been made since the beginning of their SA production in 1953.

1959, the Super Blackhawk appears,, and is a bigger frame than the FT 357's & FT .44's. It also has the Dragoon grip frame.
1963, the FT models are dropped, and the .357 & .44's are all now Blackhawks & Super Blackhawks. Both using the larger frame.
1973, the 3 screw, Old Model action design is dropped, and the New Model, with the safety transfer bar safety appears.

The NM Blackhawk in general, is the larger frame size. The FT versions, are normally the midframe size.

Confused yet?

The 1963 is half right, the mid frame/1873 continued on with ears for the .357 Blackhawks. In 1973 the mid sized frame was dropped, and the SBH frames were used for all centerfires until the .32 Single Six were introduced.

[Texas by God]

Only my opinion but I never liked the Dragoon SBH due to the square back trigger guard biting me; I never liked the feel, weight, or look of the Bisley but I love the standard Black Hawk and Single Six.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[engineer401]

Only my opinion but I never liked the Dragoon SBH due to the square back trigger guard biting me; I never liked the feel, weight, or look of the Bisley but I love the standard Black Hawk and Single Six.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I feel the same way. I like them enough to have just picked up an old model Blackhawk 357.

[curioushooter]

So I had an opportunity recently to feel the grips on a New Model Superblackhawk with dragoon trigger guard, a New Model Superblackhawk Bisley, and a New Model Vaquero (same grip/frame as the flat top new model blackhawk).

Of the three I think I prefer the NMSBH the best.

One thing I don't like about the Bisley is that I do not naturally point it. The muzzle is always pointed down. But it does get a good score for comfort.

The grip frame on the Vaquero was too short. I either had to crush my fingers on the grip to get them all on there or my pinky was half-on-half-off the toe.

Sort of killed my whole excitement regarding the the 44 special blackhawks. Maybe I'll wait for a Bisley.