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Thread: 358 velocity, soft composition

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    358 velocity, soft composition

    250 Grain Boolit, Velocity & soft composition is not coming easily, 2" at 80yds SR-4759. Do I need to W-Quench 50/50 +2 to get 2000 fps. Tried many powders. Had a load 26 gr SR-4759 RCBS 35-200 Sellier & Bellot primers shot lights out accuracy, Then 30 GR 1.5" went through that Lot#
    of primers & nothing has been easy since. I have gently tried W-748, IMR-4064, IMR-4350, W-760, AA-2015, WC-846, IMR-3031, & faster powders, I Need to pick a powder for this heavy bullet & stick to it til accuracy happens, would like to hear of your experience in comparison to load & rifle. I'm using BLR 358 & Ruger African 358 20" barrel. Hoping some input can lessen the usage of hard to come by loading material.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    Oh by the way 1:12 Twist & 20" barrel on both. sorry for late entry.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    My 358 Win hunting load for years for my Savage 110CL,rebarrelled with Douglas 14 twist #3 wt:
    WLR primers/cases from WW 308 brass.
    43 gr 3031/ Lyman 358318 ,250 gr case of 9+1 COWW/LINO , 15 bhn
    Bullet is Paper Patched. Seated out to 2.71" OAL.
    Velocity across the Oehler 33 is about 2340fps.
    Always, one shot one kill for larger Northern WI deer.
    Caution must be taken working up to this load.
    Has been safe in my rifle/chamber,etc, but NOT
    RESPONSIBLE FOR OTHERS APPROACHING SUCH LOAD.
    beltfed/arnie

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Just below this thread is another thread about a good size black bear killed with a 45 Colt completely with damage pictures. Unless you are hunting large dangerous game or shooting at long range, is it really necessary to have that soft lead boolit going that fast? Soft lead large "pills" are wonderfully lethal at moderate velocities well under an MV of 1700 fps.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master
    white eagle's Avatar
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    try 20-22 gr's. 2400 with filler or not
    I use that in my 358 win model 70
    get excellent accuracy
    slow it down a bit with cast
    no need to max out the velocity
    big heavy boolits works wonders on game
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    That 1-12 is probably going to stall you right around 1900 fps , unless you go to harder alloy . I shot a 75/25 WW/1-20 RCBS 35-250 with a full case minus 10% from the neck base of IMR 4350 and it ran immediately to 2100 fps and had I not tossed the gas check 5 into .900" . I had a Santa Barbara 98 with a 23" A&B barrel 1-14" twist .

    For whatever it's worth that's right in the middle of jacketed speeds peaking out at almost 50 kpsi with a Barnes Accu???? and H322 . I also tried H322 with dismal results .
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Sometimes it works that way!

    You get a combination that just works great and bamb, change a lot number and you are wandering in the wilderness. I had that happen with a 22-250 and j words once. I never got my .420” with 5 shots back to save my soul. I had to settle for .6” and gained velocity with a different powder until the barrel shot out.

    I would guess you need to look beyond bullet alloy and components and revisit filament to your rifle. Even firelapping if necessary.

    And also slow things back down in the meantime.

    Three44s
    Quit fretting about climate change. It’s how much stronger gravity is getting every day that is bothering me!

  8. #8
    Boolit Mold
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    I'm shooting the RCBS 200 powder coated with a about a 16 bhn. And getting 2354 fps with just under 2" groups at 100 yards. Rifle is Savage 99 22" barrel with a 1 in 12 twist using S&B primers and 42 grains of TAC. I can only attribute this to the powder coated boolits.

    Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    Using both 1-12, and 1-14, I get a group averaging 1.25" or less. Pretty much any weight bullet has seemed to work well. I use WC 852 (F) I got from Bartlett Reloading. I water drop the wheel weight bullets. My 290 gr. average 2170 fps.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    If you looked 2 threads up you would have seen this, I can tell you the pictures were nasty!!

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...e-in-the-world

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy 444ttd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by white eagle View Post
    try 20-22 gr's. 2400 with filler or not
    I use that in my 358 win model 70
    get excellent accuracy
    slow it down a bit with cast
    no need to max out the velocity
    big heavy boolits works wonders on game
    i was going to go with a bigger boolit, but a 200gr fn gc with 2400/dacron that goes 1726fps with my 35/30-30 is accurate. i have only killed one doe with it, but the boolit performance was impressive(behind the shoulder, thru both lungs, cracked a rib or two and went out). she was at about 20-25 yards and she ran after the shot about 20+/- yards more.

    sighting it in



    i also use 2400 powder/dacron for my 444 marlin and 300gr fn gc that goes 1624fps. i killed 3 or 4 deer with it and i can't complain about my "low" velocity rounds.
    "The religion of KE: proposed by the ignorant, and parroted by the unknowing" - MikeG

    ​“Einstein's relativity work is a magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant people take for a king... its exponents are brilliant men but they are metaphysicists rather than scientists.”
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  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Waksupi;- That load sounds like pure penetration at it's finest. Also to everyone that has posted on this subject, Thanks! everything that's been said is adding to the reality that is. I've taken several deer with a 50/50 w-quenched 35-200 & the results have been excellant, guess I need to return to the water drop in order to keep some velocity. I'd like to keep a little boolit speed because I'd hate to pass on a 140 yd shot due to bad grouping or boolit drop. I don't want the fur to carry away the meat. Ya Know What I Mean?

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by white eagle View Post
    try 20-22 gr's. 2400 with filler or not
    I use that in my 358 win model 70
    get excellent accuracy
    slow it down a bit with cast
    no need to max out the velocity
    big heavy boolits works wonders on game
    I use this with a 260 gr Mountain Molds boolit
    pc'd 16-1 alloy or 25-1 either will work
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    My 358W BLR insists on IMR3031 powder for accuracy. I did shoot a 3-shot group with a 200gr cast bullet powder from Missouri Bullet Co. over 29gr 3031 that made a .17" center-to-center group at our indoor 100yards range. I won't live long enough to do that again.

  15. #15
    Boolit Mold
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    "I won't live long enough to do that again."
    Now, now. Age is no objection when doing amazing feats, you can definitely do it again.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    Hank Ryan; I like PMA Positive Mental Attitude! When all else fails, The Boolits must Fly, Fly, Again!.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    I was 70 when I made that tight group. I won't live to be 100.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I know it’s not the same load and rifle but maybe some of my info might help. I’m using 50/50 ac COWW and pure lead flooring. I added 2% pewter to the total. Shooting out of my marlin 336 chambered in 35 Rem. My BH 10.4. Barrel slugs at .357” and I size at .3595” with lee push through size die I honed out. I tumble coat PC and GC my boolits. I also use a lee collet factory crimp die which imo is why my groups are tight. I shot two groups in a row at 100 yards that were .250” at 2100 FPS with 40 grains of varget.



    Here’s my first try at 200 yards with the load. It dropped 9” sighted in 1” high at 100 yards. It measured 2 3/4”



    Here’s the runner up load and powder...



    I also tested a 16:1 mix of pewter and lead flooring. The best group I had was with 40 grains of varget at 100 yards. It measured 2”. I also had a trigger pull of 5.5 pounds at the time. My varget load above shot and inch group before I lightened my trigger so I’m guessing my 16.:1 with a Bh of 7.8 will now shoot tighter.

    I’m using a lighter boolit than you are. It’s out group buy 200 grain HP.




    5.5 Pound trigger before I adjusted it down to 2 1/4 pounds vvvv...



    Here’s a couple of loads I tried with the 5.5 pound trigger before lightened it to 2 1/4 pounds. The top load now shoots all in the same hole with reducing trigger pull.

    The bottom load was with a lee 200 grain boolit mixed with the same 50/50 10.4 Bh alloy. I never retested the lee load after the reduced trigger pull weight.

    All my boolits are separated into 1 grain increments for load testing.

    What kind of crimp style are you using and what are you sizing your boolits to?

    I had a 2.5 x 10 Tasco and see throughs on it for testing. I switched over to 2x7 leupold the other day and a DNZ mount.

    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 09-08-2020 at 10:32 AM.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    Tripplebeards; I'm using a Lee factory crimp. I've been kicking the idea around of trying powder coating, what is a good powder brand, and there is a lot of talk about color, does the color matter? I read a lot of I'm gonna try this or that color.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    Late entry again; Nice Marlin!! Microgroove?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check