the first cast(casting for dummies)

[KYODE]

ok...........lets see if i get this close youins can add tips or suggestions to accomplish each feat. not necessarily in correct order, as i'm a dummy....remember?

(1)first......search for wheelweights to melt down.

(2) start collecting tools for the job. a lil pot(not fer smokin), a ladle, a heat source, and some bullet lube???

(3) slug the bore in some manner to get correct bullet size. any tips for a way to do this?.....or is it necessary? do ya then need to buy a bullet sizer or stuff to do that with?

(4) melt lead, put in a lil wax(how much?) to skim off nasties, and pour into bullet mold or ingot mold. is it necessary or how desirable is it to melt the lead and form into ingots?

(5) size the bullets. what is required to do this, and what is the least expensive route? can it be done with a regular loading press, or is it even necessary to get good accuracy?

(6) shoot em up n test for accuracy. anything in particular to look for as far as the cast bullets go?........as in seeing something you had done wrong?

yep........i'm a dummy. i gotta be lead around like a ol mule. a step by step procedure in hillbilly terms is what i'm lookin fer, i reckon.

[wills]

(4) melt lead, put in a lil wax(how much?) to skim off nasties, and pour into bullet mold or ingot mold. is it necessary or how desirable is it to melt the lead and form into ingots?

Wax, you can use Gulf brand paraffin, canning supplies at grocery store, it doesn’t take a lot, but if you use too much no harm, it all burns off anyway.

You’ll likely want a big pot for your smelting and a smaller one for casting. Big pot gets all the nasty stuff, which you make into nice clean ingots. Those go into the casting pot.

(5) size the bullets. what is required to do this, and what is the least expensive route? can it be done with a regular loading press, or is it even necessary to get good accuracy?

Lee push through will work with your press, is cheap.

[carpetman]

Kyode----I would make my first step buying a Lyman Manual and be reading that while collecting the other stuff. Lyman,being a company that makes casting equipment,does include both data and information about casting. The info is good to help you get started and the data is needed once you are ready to start loading them.
You mention collecting wheel weights---a good way to go. I'd break this down into two parts. One is melting down the wheel weights into ingots and the other the actual casting. The melting into ingots is best done outdoors as you will get a lot of smoke from the wheel weights. This can be done all kinds of ways. My way is using a Coleman stove and a cast iron pot. If you don't have a Coleman stove,I have found lots of them at garage sales for under $20----some much less. There could be several pages of posts for other methods used by the folks here---. Once your ww's are melted you will skim off the clips etc stir things real good and skim off the rest. Another area of pages of posts---with all the grease etc on the ww's I figure they really are pretty well fluxed. Now the real biggie that produces an encyclopedia of posts is what to use for an ingot mold. There is a thread here you can read. For my purposes,of all things,an ingot mold seems to work well.
Now that you have ingots,you are ready to cast. For years I used my Coleman stove and cast iron pot and a ladle. Then I bought a Lee bottom pour electric furnace. For the money,I have no complaints. It has been doing very well for years. I much prefer the bottom pour over the ladle. I am not a Lee fan,but their furnace is one of their products I do recommend. We talked about a 6MM mold and for that,I highly recommend the RCBS.
If you do read that Lyman manual,and these boards,you will read a lot about blending alloies. It becomes rocket science--and well beyond. When I read in the Lyman book about taking ww's of unknown alloies and then blending in very exacting amounts of stuff and coming up with an exact blend,it made no sense to me. So I developed my own very secret recipe which I will share with you. Now the real formula is so scientific that it would confuse Enstein(or however it is spelled) so I'll give the simple version. You take equal parts of free ww's and very carefully mix in an equal part of ww's you didnt have to pay for and you have it. You can seek out expensive stuff to add and probably not really improve on it. In a weak moment,I once bought some solder for the tin and it made my wallet lighter was the only difference I noticed.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Kyode, You sure aren't shy about asking questions! I guess you want a "once over lightly" treatment of the basics to get started. You will pick up the finer points by your own experience or hanging around with the other addicts on this board.

(1) Collecting wheelweights. Best source is your friendly tahr shop. When you go to buy tahrs for your pickup it's not hard to talk them out of some of their junk weights. (Pizza and soft drinks or beer for the guys in the shop are a great way to shake more weights out of the brush. Scrap metal dealers often sell weights or other lead alloys. Careful here, you could wind up with contaminated metal.

(2) Tools. Your heat source can be a Coleman stove, electric furnace, or vatious cooking devices from the big box store adapted for the purpose. Lead pots are easily available, or can be improvised from small Dutch ovens.
The main thing here is a flat bottom to prevent upsetting, and not too big. Ten lbs. is plenty of capacity, twenty is a very large pot or furnace. Aladle is needed if you don't have a bottom pour furnace. I like the RCBS because it is big enough for four 200 gr. boolits and has a fin on the bottom to scrape crud out of the way before each filling. A pile of old towels will help to provide a soft landing for your booolits. You will need a moulde mallet to cut off sprues and tap stubborn boolits out of the mould, a wooden mallet, rawhide hammer, or a hardwood stick will do nicely. Wear, heavy gloves, safety glasses, and have every part of your body that you don't want hot lead on, covered.

(3) Slugging. Easiest way is to drive a PURE lead object down the barrel from the muzzle. It can be a boolit cast from tape-on weights, lead muzzle loader ball, or very soft fishing sinker. The slug should be a little bigger than expected groove diameter and tapered on one end to start easily. Oil the slug, and use NO METAL TOOLS to get it started. After it is started use a flat ended tip on your one-piece steel cleaning rod to drive it through. I use an 8-32 screw filed flat and with the head smaller than bore diameter to drive the slug. A wrap or two of masking tape will help protect the bore. Measure the slug at it's largest diameter, unless it has an odd number of grooves. Odd grooves require a special mike.

(4) Fluxing. A piece of candle wax the size of a pea will adequately flux your metal. Stir vigorously with the ladle. The flux may burst into flame, this isw normal. Skim off the black and brown impurities with abent spoon after each fluxing. I flux about every fifteen casts, keeping the surface raked free for dipping between fluxings. NEVER melt old wheelweights or other dirty metal in an electric furnace, and clena your lead pot if you use it for smelting. Only clean ingotsshould go in a casting pot.

(5) Boolits can be left unsized and lube smeared on by hand, or lubed with Lee liquid Alox. Better is to use a lubrisizer and lube, size, and install gas checks in one step. Lee makes a push-trhough sizer that fits your loading press.

(6) Test shooting. Fifty yards or closer, bench rest. Look for round groups. Horizontal groups are usuall the rifle, rest , or shooter. Vertical groups are the load.

(7) Information. If you expect to learn everything you need from one post by a man who may be talking through his hat, you are very innocent. Immediately buy a Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets and read it from cover to cover, then come back here with your questions. Lyman is a little dated, ignorant on a few small points, but it is the basic source to get started on.
Read, ask questions, THEN start casting. Good luck.

[Willbird]

On the wheelweights, I think gathering them is an ongoing process, I drop off 3-5 gallon buckets with my name and number on them, I do pay .10 an lb, and I do what I say I will do, IE bring back their empty buckets when I get the weights out etc. . This seems to surprise people.

Ask around and make contacts, refuse NO scrap lead of any kind, you can always trade it to those less fortunate or less energetic for other things you need.

You did not mention the caliber your starting with in the post here, most modern theory revolves around the boolit fitting the throat not the bore. Properly fitted boolits will allow you higher velocity.

The posts on books were right on, Dick Lee's Modern Reloading has lots of info and I did not see it mentioned yet. Handloader magazines from way back in the 60's to present are a wealth of information too, beg borrow, buy and steal every one you can lay your hands on. All old theory is not out of date, and info is info.

Bill

[JohnH]

The manual is a must, reading here is a major plus. It is almost easier to speak of what not to do.....

Don't compare your results to what you see in the gun rags. I'm convinced that lots of them pretty shiny bullets are either Linotype (a lead alloy) or fresh cast 20:1. Not every bullet you cast will look like those, most especially if you are using WW with 1-2% tin added.

Be absolutely sure your mold is clean and free of oil. Any oil in the mold will maka yu krazy. When you get you mold, wash it with laquer thinner, xylene or mineral spirits. I have a can of Frankford Arsenal mold release....I ONLY spray the bottom of the sprue plate and the top of the mold. Keep it out of the mold cavity. while it works good, it can and will reduece the size of your bullets by .001" or so. Many people smoke the cavities to aid release with a new mold. I use wood matches for this, I find they give a nice heavy smoke with little effort. I have heard of folks using a candle for this, I'd bet that a kerosene lantern would be the bomb (to quote my daughter, who has mastered a forgien language) Lee says to touch the sprue plate screw with a dab of bullet lube when hot to prevent galling. I've found the mold relaese does just fine for this. Read the sticky on "Lee Menting", but don't fix a mold that ain't broke.

I vastly prefer bottom pouring to ladleing, you'll have to find the method you prefer. In bottom pouring I hold the mold about an inch below the spout, it seems to aid in venting this way.

You'll go through weighing every bullet. Thats not a bad thing. If you are shooting handguns it is likely that you can't shoot to a level that allows you discern a good bullet from a bad one. Many of us find after a while that we can visually sort with nearly as good accuracy as we can weigh sort. If the bullets not filled out, it won't shoot. But sorting for minute specks is nearly futile. If your scale is only accurate to +/- 1/10 grain, at best you can only sort to 2/10ths grains, so don't maka yusef krazy, this is for enjoyment and pleasure, the road to insanity is pointed out by our children.

Finally, the road to success is pointed out by those who are successful. Wheel weights with 1-2% tin added is as near a perfect alloy as is available. It is inexpensive, can be down right cheap. It shoots well as is dropped from the mold, and can be hardened if desired as well. Hardening is easy, canbe achieved by dropping in water frm the mold or can be oven heated and water dropped. Both methods work, the latter probably give more consistant results if you enjoy a higer level of "hobby enjoyment"

Now for a list of things I wish I'd known at the beginning......

It is hard to make bad bullets.

Spend less time looking at the bullet that just came from your mold, and more time refilling the mold. You can look whilethe sprue is cooling, you can sort after you are done casting. Ifthe pot is hot and the metal molten, it is time for casting. The more consistant you keep your casting rythem, the better your bullets will be. Keep a good supply of ingots immediate, they should not weigh more than a pound, keep the pot topped up.

The bullets you make are probably better than you think they are. If your first loads only give 4" groups and you want 2", the fault is likely NOT the bullet, but a combination of factors. Shoot slow (velocity) and work up. I did not realize how good 2" 100 yard groups at 1800 fps actually are. I did not realize how much I would enjoy shooting 1 1/4" groups at 50 yards with loads that fall apart by 100 yards. Wad cutters can be super accurate at 50 but be falling apart at 100, not a fault with the load or the bullet, just that design don't fly well past 50, a common and well known phenonemon to experienced cast shooters but rarely known amoung new casters, the stuff that can maka yu klazy.

Now the casters mantra....."The bullet must fit the bore, the bullet must fit the bore, the bullet must fit the bore..." Repeat often, at least untill people give you funny looks, then switch to "The bullet must fit the throat, the bullet must fit the throat, the bullet must fit the throat...."

Finally, the lube must be up to the velocity you are shooting. This is probably more important than the hardness of the bullet. for pistol up to say 900 fps, 50-50 Beeswax and Criscoe will work. Same stuff with an addition of Lyman Super Moly and Slick 50 is getting me to 1800 without leading, above that you will likely need a premium lube or FWFL (I'll leave that to others)

Be clear with your goal. While there are similarities between good pistol bullets/loads and rifle bullets/loads each will have it's own requirements to give best accuracy.

Itis easier than you may think. Hang around here, I've learned more in less than a year here than I did stumbling around in the dark on my own in 25 years or so.

[Bass Ackward]

(6) shoot em up n test for accuracy. anything in particular to look for as far as the cast bullets go?........as in seeing something you had done wrong?

yep........i'm a dummy. i gotta be lead around like a ol mule. a step by step procedure in hillbilly terms is what i'm lookin fer, i reckon.

Kyode,

Your thinking. But your ready. Time for some practical application.

The secret to cast bullet shooting is the same as anything else in life. How much effort you do to attain an accuracy level is up to you.

Learning stops .... when satisfaction is achieved.

[45nut]

One thing Kyode ain't is shy. Unlike most folks however he can be persuaded to listen.
Thanks for the repetition on the "boolit must fit the bore". That is one thing that may seem familiar from my time on the SP board to him.

[KYODE]

i'm a learnin! i know now know that melting the wheel weights needs to be a separate operation from actual filling of molds(thanks to youins). hence the need for ingots, i suppose.
i reckon i need a lyman book. i guess thats my first mistake. i don't load ammo without a load manual.

hey.....in "real life" i am a lil shy and don't talk much if there are several people around..........go figure.

[wills]

Pictures of our illuminati smelting wheel weights. ( This reminds me, do we need a dress code?)

http://www.castpics.net/RandD/moas/moas.htm

[Gunload Master]

Pictures of our illuminati smelting wheel weights. ( This reminds me, do we need a dress code?)

http://www.castpics.net/RandD/moas/moas.htm

Great pics! That is really neat.

[longhorn]

Dress code? Well, I don't believe I'd fire up a turkey burner (or even a pear burner, for that matter) wearing those spiffy shorts. I have a little white dime-sized scar just above my left knee that reminds me what to wear around molten wheelweights. Great smelting setup!

[drinks]

I have found the easiest way to remove the clips from the melt is to use a large magnet and slowly pass it over the pot, then pull the clips off with the left hand while wearing a welding glove.
If more or less pure lead is needed, I found a recycling plant who sells such things as plumbing roof jacks which are pretty close to pure for .10c a lb. the ones I got tested BHN6 after melting and cleaning, that is what MidwayUSA claims for their 99.9% pure lead ingots.
I have molds by Lee, Lyman, Kirkland and RCBS, the only one I have a problem with is the RCBS.
Lee liquid alox is good, I use LBT soft blue in the sardine can method, you put a sardine can or a miniature loaf pan on a surplus hot plate, melt the lube, keep it hot enough to stay liquid but not smoking,set the bullets in on their base, with forceps, watch , in a few seconds the lube will climb up the bullet, remove the bullet, shake of the last drop and set down on an aluminum pie plate or some such.
I am now trying Hornady Unique lube for both cases and lubing bullets before seating gas checks and sizing in the Lee base push sizing dies, also making my own dies now.
Plan to try the Hornady lube for bullets too.
Really a lot of fun once you get going.
If you are serious about cast bullets you should join the Cast Bullet Assn,they have a web site, and with a new membership you get a 100 page book on casting that is worth more than the $17 a year dues.
The bullets I cast.
Don

[Dipperman]

Question for Drinks. What is a "plumbing roof jack"? I have seen the term used on various threads, but never an explanation of what they are. Thank you much.

AL aka Dipperman

[Wayne Smith]

One thing not yet mentioned that I've learned in the, what? three years I've been casting - is the importance of a casting thermometer. Once I kept the melt at a constant temperature the weight of my bullets suddenly became +- 1gr in most cases. I had no idea that consistent temps were that important.

O'coarse, I'm casting out of an iron pot on a Coleman stove using a dipper. My ingot mold is an old, rusty muffin tin that didn't release the ingots easily until it rusted. I stir my pot with a piece of copper pipe flattened on one end. When I tap a mold I use an old hammer handle. I cast on the back screened in porch in suburbia. Most of my molds I've bought off eBay. I make my own bullet lube, but did buy lanolin for that. It's definitely a low budget operation.

I suppose if you spring for a casting pot keeping a constant temp is pretty much a given.

[Singletree]

Dipperman,
plumbing roof jack is a collar, if you will, that fits around a vent pipe that extends thru the roof. On the bottom is a square portion that fits the roof angle and also slides under the shingles on the upper side to make it water tight. It is made of mostly pure lead. There are also sheet metal roof jacks for installing wood stoves chimneys and such. Sheet metal don't melt so readily.

[Bob Krack]

Dipperman,
plumbing roof jack is a collar, if you will, that fits around a vent pipe that extends thru the roof. On the bottom is a square portion that fits the roof angle and also slides under the shingles on the upper side to make it water tight. It is made of mostly pure lead. There are also sheet metal roof jacks for installing wood stoves chimneys and such. Sheet metal don't melt so readily.

An easier picture for me of a lead roof jack is a flat piece of lead sheet with a lead pipe sticking out of the middle of it.

Vic

[KYODE]

wow!...this old thread made the "rich n famous" section?

hi ken!


as an update.....sadly i've never taken up casting, but it was a good thought...lol. the teenage kids, gardening, n life in general makes loading/shooting difficult to get done at all....let alone melting lead n all that stuff. i know youins enjoy it though. has to be a great hobby.

[BigGun]

kydoe:

welcome to the wonderful world of boolit casting, my casting setup is as follows,
I am a dipper guy, have tried bottom pour pots, I can't get good casts with them,
(i casted for 10 years b/4 trying one.i started casting in 1970 "as memory serves me.")
my heat source is a 2 burner natural gas hot plate, one burner is for my casting
pot, the other i keep a pot of boolit metal ready to top off the casting pot.

i use a propane turkey fryer to melt my ww's with a 4 quart cast iron pan to melt
the ww's in. My engit molds are small bread loaf pans (they make 8 lb engits.)they
fit my casting pot nicely.

i melt my sprues and bad boolits in my reserve pot, not my casting pot, that way I
don't cool down my casting pot.
I flux my casting metal every 15min or sooner if needed, i flux with candle wax,
(purchase this wax in slabs and cut into fluxing chunks to flux with. i use a tea spoon that i have drilled full of holes for skiming off the dross from my casting
pot. use a large slotted spoon to skim off dross from reserve pot, i transfer
boolit metal from reserve pot to casting from reserve pot with a soop ladel.

there likely as many types of casting setups as there are casters.you will likely
change your setup 3 to 4 times b/4 you are happy with it. pay attention to your
dominent hand in setting up your system, will be more effecient if you don't have
to use your weak hand unnaturaly. (i would starve if i lost the use of my right
arm.)

read all articles you can find on casting, lyman's 48thedition reloading handbook
is one good source.
good luck getting started casting , you will enjoy it.

later
ted kelley

[MightyThor]

offer to make bullets for the people who supply you with lead. If you don't have the mold they need offer to make the bullets if they want to get the mold, or you get the mold and then make bullets for them and anyone else who needs them. Anyone who brings you lead gets bullets, before long you may find that you have more lead than you will ever use, may have more molds than you think you can use. At that point offer to help someone else get started. Before long you have more new friends and fellow casters and shooters. Also end up with lots of new places to shoot.