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Thread: The age old question

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimB.. View Post
    It’s a hard question, and while I’ve been drafting responses for over an hour I can’t find the words to form a coherent reply. It’s the sort of thing that I think requires a conversation, not an internet post.
    Jim we are told in the scriptures how we are sure.

    2Pe 1:3-11

    His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    When we cultivate these attributes we know our faith is well placed. Note that these attributes don't run contrary to any other religion.

    From the message Galatians 5, 22-23

    But what happens when we live God’s way? He brings gifts into our lives, much the same way that fruit appears in an orchard—things like affection for others, exuberance about life, serenity. We develop a willingness to stick with things, a sense of compassion in the heart, and a conviction that a basic holiness permeates things and people. We find ourselves involved in loyal commitments, not needing to force our way in life, able to marshal and direct our energies wisely.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    I said it based on what you've said.
    Such as what?
    It's easy to say "what you've said", but back it up with some facts.

    But, I speak as a Christian who finds deep spiritual rest with the God of the Holy Bible. It's He whom you deny;
    Oh, the God of the Holy Bible. The Creator of all things.
    That God?
    There is only one God and you know it and it is that God that is discussed here.
    Yet, you are calling me an atheist again.
    Back it up 1Hole.
    You can't, because you are spreading false statements about me and others and have no facts to support your accusation.

    That gives you a Credibility score of: ZERO
    Why should we believe anything you say when you can't support the statements you make?
    Hmmm?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimB.. View Post
    LOL, like I said, I’m the last one to witness, and it’s not my job to convince you to abandon your beliefs and adopt mine.
    Yet, isn't that what you were doing when you said:
    "What if you were to set that aside for a moment and return to your roots? Strip off all the trappings of the catholic church and go right to the core of the gospel?

    As for your struggle, if you don’t see it then I’m not sure you understand yourself as well as you think you do.
    I am asking you to explain it to me.

    Also, I spent a bit of time replying to your questions about how I ended up with my beliefs and also asked some (several) questions to you about issues, yet you ignore them.

    Still waiting.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    Jim we are told in the scriptures how we are sure.

    2Pe 1:3-11

    His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    When we cultivate these attributes we know our faith is well placed. Note that these attributes don't run contrary to any other religion.

    From the message Galatians 5, 22-23

    But what happens when we live God’s way? He brings gifts into our lives, much the same way that fruit appears in an orchard—things like affection for others, exuberance about life, serenity. We develop a willingness to stick with things, a sense of compassion in the heart, and a conviction that a basic holiness permeates things and people. We find ourselves involved in loyal commitments, not needing to force our way in life, able to marshal and direct our energies wisely.
    Thank you, not needing to force our way in life is an accurate description in my experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    I am fine with you giving it a rest. We have been having a conversation here but the written word is so concrete and the spoken word can be nebulous. It is clear God gave you faith in the bible, maybe even through the intercession of the Holy Spirit. God maybe saw that you needed that. Of course you thank God, I am sure. Do you know how lucky you are to have faith to not have doubts?

    Tim
    I suppose that I’m lucky. I went through a long period with a lot of questions and doubts, it’s good to be past that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    Yet, isn't that what you were doing when you said:
    "What if you were to set that aside for a moment and return to your roots? Strip off all the trappings of the catholic church and go right to the core of the gospel?


    I am asking you to explain it to me.

    Also, I spent a bit of time replying to your questions about how I ended up with my beliefs and also asked some (several) questions to you about issues, yet you ignore them.

    Still waiting.
    Not at all, I was saying that you might find additional peace if you go back a few steps and explore going forward again. I certainly didn’t say that you need to end up believing what I believe.

    As for your apparent, to me anyway, fear of reincarnation, you seem to be lamenting the fact that God is calling you home, but that you probably aren’t going to be able to be with Him even though that’s what you want. Instead you expect to be reincarnated repeatedly until you get “it” right. Maybe I misunderstood. As I tried to say earlier, there is nothing about reincarnation that offends my beliefs, but the idea that we can somehow become good enough to earn salvation through repeated reincarnation doesn’t make any sense to me. In billions of real experiences has anyone ever walked a perfect path?

    I did appreciate your earlier response, but I didn’t see any questions in it, just a timeline of how you developed your beliefs. As I said earlier, it is a blessing that you see God in you, but the way you describe yourself it seems that you’re missing a connection and you know it. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I certainly have no desire to debate it with you, it’s either real or it’s not and only you can know.

    Apologies if I appear to be evangelizing, not my intention and I promise that I neither need nor deserve any credit for “saving” you or anyone else...not my job.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimB.. View Post
    Not at all, I was saying that you might find additional peace if you go back a few steps and explore going forward again. I certainly didn’t say that you need to end up believing what I believe.
    Well, I appreciate your concern.
    I am going forwards, no need to go backwards.
    If I am already trying to follow Jesus' teachings as part of my Spiritual journey, what would I be going back to?
    Dropping the Karma/Reincarnation belief? Is that what you mean?

    As for your apparent, to me anyway, fear of reincarnation, you seem to be lamenting the fact that God is calling you home
    I think you misunderstand (perhaps I did not elaborate enough on that) what I experience when I get that feeling.
    It really is a personal thing but it is not lamenting.
    I get that feeling sometimes for no reason. Sometimes if I get lazy and do not meditate, I get it.
    "Calling me back home" is how I describe it.
    He is "saying" "Don't give up! Keep at it! You are on the right path! Come to Me!"
    Hopefully that makes more sense.

    You see, with meditation, you have a....let's call it a tool, that you can use to advance Spiritually and know your Oneness with God and all of His creations NOW, rather than having to wait until death to see what happens.
    We came from God and ultimately we will all be "back home" with Him.


    .... but that you probably aren’t going to be able to be with Him even though that’s what you want.
    What a terrible thing to say to someone.

    I did appreciate your earlier response, but I didn’t see any questions in it, just a timeline of how you developed your beliefs.
    Yes, but we had some exchanges since then.
    See Post #32.
    Lot's of question marks (to you) in there.

    As I said earlier, it is a blessing that you see God in you, but the way you describe yourself it seems that you’re missing a connection and you know it. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I certainly have no desire to debate it with you, it’s either real or it’s not and only you can know.
    <sigh>
    I am missing a connection and I know it.
    Yes, perhaps you did misunderstand.

    Apologies if I appear to be evangelizing, not my intention and I promise that I neither need nor deserve any credit for “saving” you or anyone else...not my job.
    Apology accepted. Yes, it appeared to me that you were, but I believe you.
    We're good JimB.

    Regarding the "saving" part.
    I would say that I was "saved" back in my twenties when I found my new Spirituality.
    It was a wonderful thing.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    Jim we are told in the scriptures how we are sure.....
    If you have to be told how you are sure then you are not sure you are just parroting back scripture. I am fine with him not being able to explain it in writing. I believe he is sure in his faith.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  7. #47
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    So, God put us on this earth......why?

    That was the question.

    For me, that's easy, for you
    seems to be a hard question.
    Theo (God) Logos (Word).

    To answer a question with a question:
    There are 64 topics in this forum
    one is prayers asked and answered
    another is you are foolish to pray.
    If you think prayer is foolish
    why are you here?
    Haven't you seen prayer answered?
    I have.

    Chronicles of Riddick:
    Cleanser:"...doubts...".
    Vaaco:" If you have come to try my faith, you only try my patience".
    Cleanser:"Oh, no, never that".

    Do you think you can convert me to a pagan faith? Been there, done that, pagan don't work. Yoga made me limber. Kendo taught me control. Fitters taught me to measure. LaoTse taught me to cut. Scuba taught me to plan. All vanity. Where's the joy?
    Deep Theological Discussion with no joy? Wednesday night, down the street, you can find it. If you choose. Or don't. Your loss.

    Motion to adjourn. nunc demittis.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by .429&H110 View Post
    So, God put us on this earth......why?

    That was the question.

    For me, that's easy, for you
    seems to be a hard question.
    Theo (God) Logos (Word).
    I'm not sure who you are referring to.
    Your replies tend to be a bit confusing.

    I'll Assume you are referring to me.
    A hard question? It's a question that I put forth to solicit input and discussion on the subject.
    I stated my views and you have stated that for you it is easy, yet I did not see where you answered it.


    To answer a question with a question:
    There are 64 topics in this forum
    one is prayers asked and answered
    another is you are foolish to pray.
    If you think prayer is foolish
    why are you here?
    Haven't you seen prayer answered?
    I have.
    Prayer is not the subject of this thread.
    Where did I say prayer is foolish?

    Do you think you can convert me to a pagan faith? Been there, done that, pagan don't work. Yoga made me limber. Kendo taught me control. Fitters taught me to measure. LaoTse taught me to cut. Scuba taught me to plan. All vanity. Where's the joy?
    Deep Theological Discussion with no joy? Wednesday night, down the street, you can find it. If you choose. Or don't. Your loss.
    More cryptic babble.
    Sorry you have no joy.
    For me there is a lot of joy.

    Motion to adjourn. nunc demittis.
    Motion denied.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    Such as what?
    It's easy to say "what you've said", but back it up with some facts.

    Oh, the God of the Holy Bible. The Creator of all things.
    That God?

    There is only one God and you know it and it is that God that is discussed here.

    Yet, you are calling me an atheist again.

    Back it up 1Hole.
    You can't, because you are spreading false statements about me and others and have no facts to support your accusation.
    Weeell ... it's a bit more than that isn't it?

    I'll stipulate that I speak of my understandings. I may misunderstand something that's been posted but I never make "accusations"; if you think that then you misunderstand me.

    That gives you a Credibility score of: ZERO
    Why should we believe anything you say when you can't support the statements you make? Hmmm?
    IF we could only say things we have published documentation for (and that everyone accepts) then this would be a lonely place. The way this really works is: One guy says what he believes to be true and others say what they believe to be true; that seems to be fair enough to me. Therefore we shouldn't need to play "king of the mountain" games and beat on each other in childish attempts to win on points.

    And, yeah, I did mean "that God", i.e., Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the one in the Bible! So far as I know he is the only one (save the antichrist Allah) who presents himself as God. THAT God's words (scripture) are what theology and this forum is about, all other religions are nothing but humanist philosophies.

    You'll have to "prove" what you say about what I have supposedly "spread" about you and unnamed "others" because I have no clue what you're talking about; do you want to support your allegations about that?

    My last thought for your consideration; say whatever you wish, any way you wish, any time you wish and that's fine with me but being deliberately snarky in personal attacks doesn't add anything to your own credibility.

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    God put us here because he wanted to. He doesnt owe and explanation.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Not reject God but reject religion. God is. Religion is made up. Happens more with Catholics because the Roman Catholic Church is the epitome of Industrial Religion for profit, church first, people second, God third.

    Tim
    sorry tim but the catholic church just happens to have the most people in it. Industrial religion? Just look at the tv evangelists that give a sermon and then ask little old ladys staying up late to donate money while they drive home with there 500 dollar suits in there benz. Look at the new protestant faiths that pop up daily by someone that is smooth talking enough to make a living off a church full of people. Betcha your pastor makes more money then my priest does. just typical catholic bashing from someone that doesnt have a clue and has probably never been in a catholic church. I think for the most part the animosity comes from the fact that every catholic church believes the same thing and you cant find two protestant churches that agree on a single passage in the bible.

  12. #52
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    Yes I do babble really well!
    Glad you caught the difference!
    Theology without Scripture is babble.
    I answered this once.
    We are here to serve God.
    My joy is He lets me.

    Matthew 12:29-31
    And Jesus answered him, The first of all commandments is, Hear, O, Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
    And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: This is the first commandment.
    And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

    Amen

    I wanted to marry a Catholic girl, so I went to catechism. My parents convinced me otherwise. So did the Nuns.

    That's where I learned that Simeon said when he held the Baby, "nunc demittis servum tuum Domine secundum verbum tuum in pace."
    Luke wrote in Greek,
    "nyn apolygeis ton doulon sou, despota, kata to rhema sou en eirene."
    "Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: for mine eyes have seen thy salvation." Luke 2:29-30
    Amen
    nunc demittis

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    .... I think for the most part the animosity comes from the fact that every catholic church believes the same thing and you cant find two protestant churches that agree on a single passage in the bible.
    "Facts?" I don't know if you have been taught that stuff or just made it up yourself but you're wrong, neither of those "facts" are even close to being true.

    You are aware that there are quite a few splinter RC groups and then there are the various RC orders that strongly disagree on specific points of doctrine. And nothing in anyone's religious history book comes close to matching the massive division between Rome and Constantinople and it's different Popes happily excommunicating each other.

    Your (so-called) "protestant" denominations agree on at least 90% of their doctrines, it's the near trivial that we disagree on and no one of us ever has or now wants to burn anyone at the stake over it. But we're not at all sure what the RC leadership would still do if they still could.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    "Facts?" I don't know if you have been taught that stuff or just made it up yourself but you're wrong, neither of those "facts" are even close to being true.

    You are aware that there are quite a few splinter RC groups and then there are the various RC orders that strongly disagree on specific points of doctrine. And nothing in anyone's religious history book comes close to matching the massive division between Rome and Constantinople and it's different Popes happily excommunicating each other.

    Your (so-called) "protestant" denominations agree on at least 90% of their doctrines, it's the near trivial that we disagree on and no one of us ever has or now wants to burn anyone at the stake over it. But we're not at all sure what the RC leadership would still do if they still could.
    Most protestants cant even agree on what a scripture is referring to. Its why one church has become more then a 100 and new ones start every day. Matter of fact in most cases even in the same parish you argue about it at bible study. Catholic church just seems to intimidate people. I dont know why. We dont control you or effect your day to day life. The pope has no control over you. No more then the queen of england.

    Yup the catholic church has wealth. So what. Even cardinals and bishops get little more then minimum wage and the pope works for free. How much does your pastor make. How much did someone like Billy graham make in his life? How much did jim and tammy baker steal from there gullible followers. Keep in mind too that the catholic church is the biggest charitable organization in the world.

    Also the most powerful force fighting against abortion in this country. A church that you will NEVER see a homosexual women standing up front as a pastor. Catholic church still wants to burn people at the stake!! That is absolutely ridiculous and proves my point about blind prejudices. How many people were killed in the name of the protestant faith!! Lets talk about England, Ireland, the salem witch trials? Now the puritans, that was a real sane bunch Suppose they believe 90 percent of what you believe?? Mormans? Jws? yup there protestant too! Do they believe the same 90 percent as you. That would explain alot

    Fact is if you want to use that 90 percent crap martin luther's beliefs are alot closer to todays catholic beliefs then they are to about 90 percent of the protestant churches today. He is no doubt rolling over in his grave seeing what has become of his reform. The protestant faith in again 90 percent of the churches that have popped up and turned into tv show entertainment and Jim Jones cult like (yup he was protestant too) churches are so far from his original believes that the word protestant doesnt even apply anymore. But some of you just go ahead and keep hating. If you hate catholics maybe youll not bother hating someone else. Maybe someday all the churches will be run by liberal homosexuals and abortions will be routine things your family doctor does for a 50 dollar appointment. Whats next? You going to claim priest molest kids and protestant ministers dont

  15. #55
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    No doubt, there are more people "in" church than "of the church." The number of followers is not what gives something credibility, it merely gives it the appearance of credibility; an illusion. Let us not forget the difference between "church" in Holy reference and "church" as a place to go. Most of us are not clear which one we mean. The two are very different. You may go to the church and not be part of the Church. I don't care which denomination within the Christian faith we want to discuss, that fact applies.

    You cannot profess to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and at the same time deny "...no man cometh unto the Father but by Me." (John 14:6) That was one of his chief teachings. None of us are good enough to get there on our own. The Law was given to us as a measuring stick so that we can clearly see we fail miserably and that there IS only one way. There is no such thing as a "good" person, only people that aren't as bad as others. Look at politics within our country to see how "I'm not as bad as he/she is" plays out.

    The purpose of human life is to be in communion with God! Epic fail. Did God set us up for that? I don't know and I don't expect to get an answer. Maybe it was all part of a plan to separate the seed from the chaff. Maybe life is the Great Winnowing. Look around and its easy to see what happens when humans have it easy, we find new ways to sin, new things to focus on besides God (which he calls idols). The story of the Garden of Eden is one of selfishness and jealousy, in addition to rebellion.

    How do I know God is real? Occam's Razor says the simplest solution is almost always the best. It is far easier to believe that the things I've experienced in life are for a purpose and part of a grander plan than it is to believe luck and fate (two common idols) or mere coincidence. I come from a broken home. Much of my life I've wondered why God would cause me such pain and anguish. Well, it took more than 30 years for it to be revealed to me. It turns out I needed to experience that pain and anguish so that I could empathize with my nieces who currently live with me. They don't need someone who can sympathize, they need someone who knows what they are going through, understands the frustrations and self loathing. I didn't bring them into my home with the knowledge that I was trained for the job, or the expectation that I could connect. That was revealed to me after the fact. I was nearly in tears from the overwhelming realization that there was a specific reason for me to endure what I had. (For clarity, I'm not saying I had it particularly bad).

    That's one example of hundreds I could present. I've been so close to death so many times it isn't even funny; and there is no other reason besides God's Grace that I'm not and really haven't been severely injured in any of it. Even a gunshot wound that could have gone anywhere hit me in the most inconsequential spot it could have. No person had control of the firearm, my friend dropped it; so it could have landed anywhere. I thank God it has a 410 shell in it instead of a 45 Colt. I know, "if God were really taking care of you, you wouldn't have gotten shot at all." Well, we don't know that. Who knows what I might have gotten into if I'd not been laid up on the couch. Or my friend may have killed someone had he not sworn off guns after that incident.

    But why is it so hard for us to believe that God gave us a manual? Is it just because men hate reading instruction manuals that they reject the Bible, or is it a distaste for the what the Bible directs that men commonly will not read or follow instructions?

    I completely agree with another poster who pointed out that acceptance of Salvation through Christ comes with change. I'm not suggesting we're immediately perfect, or that we ever will be prior to our arrival in Heaven, but the change can't help but happen as your flaws are revealed to you. But an odd thing also happens. Things that you might believe are flaws may be revealed to you to be part of your individual uniqueness. Satan likes for us to believe that what makes us unique is a flaw, because it is something we cannot separate from ourselves.....it is unalienable. Sin is alienable....though I will be the first to tell you I have not conquered it. I don't have to. Jesus did it for me! I praise Him for it.

    There was a time when I did not want to hear this Truth. I fought to avoid The Church for a long time. I do believe that most religions put far too many "good ideas" into the "rule" or "Law" category. Christ summarized the Law with Love, but people mistake Love for the feeling they get when they want something. Love is defined in 1 Corinthians 13.

    If we cannot agree that the Bible is fact and without error, then we have nothing to discuss. The Bible is very clear that not all who have eyes can see, and not all who have ears can hear. (Acts 28:26-27, Mark 8:18, Mark 4:12, Matthew 13:14-15, Jeremiah 5:21)

    Bottom line (pun not intended) - Too many people are trying to be good enough and it will never happen. If you wonder if you are Saved, you are not. When you are, there will be no doubt.
    WANTED: CH AutoChamp Mark IV, V, or Va - PM me if you've got one you'd like to part with.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    Catholic church just seems to intimidate people. I dont know why. We dont control you or effect your day to day life. The pope has no control over you. No more then the queen of england.
    You may think the RCC "intimidates" others but it really doesn't even figure in our thoughts.

    Yup the catholic church has wealth. So what. Even cardinals and bishops get little more then minimum wage and the pope works for free. How much does your pastor make.
    Your leaders "make" little but they live like kings. My pastor is a volunteer and he doesn't live like a king.
    How much did someone like Billy graham make in his life? How much did jim and tammy baker steal from there gullible followers.
    Billy Graham is an evangalist, not a pastor with the daily demands of a local minister; he lives on the income from his many books.

    The Bakers were thieves and when they were caught they paid the legal penalties. And they were by no means "protestants" to anyone but people like you. (We, you and I, went through all this years ago but you persist in factual error of who and what the Protestant churches are.)

    You should know Protestants were and remain those few denominations that came directly out of Roman Catholism in the Reformation of the 1500s; i.e., Lutherens, Church of England/Episcopal, Presbyterian. Meaning every denomination that isn't RCC is not by that fact Protestant.

    Keep in mind too that the catholic church is the biggest charitable organization in the world.
    As a religious organization with masses of employees that's probably true but, as a charitable organization, the RCC is a minor player on the world stage.

    Also the most powerful force fighting against abortion in this country. A church that you will NEVER see a homosexual women standing up front as a pastor.
    Is all of that any part of this topic? But, what you say seems to be true as you state it, meaning the RC leadership's homosexual activity and child molestation activity is (usually) well hidden.

    Catholic church still wants to burn people at the stake!!
    That's not what I said is it? My thinking is about what would the RCC still be doing IF they still had that kind of political power. And remember this Lloyd; it wasn't a deep change of kindly hearts that finally brought an end to the RC's burning of "dissenters", it was their (enraged) loss of political control over kings of the world.

    How many people were killed in the name of the protestant faith!! Lets talk about England, Ireland, ...
    Okay, let's talk about England and Ireland.

    The Protestant English invasion of Catholic Ireland was in the northeast corner of the island. That caused some hard feelings (which continues today) but the fighting was and remains about which group has political dominance in Ulster, not about religion, as such.

    England was ruled by Henry VIII and it was he that decreed his kingdom to be free from the RCC. I know of no murder of Catholics over religion at that time but when the crown passed down to she who is still called "Bloody Mary" in English history, she began a campaign to kill all who would not submit to Rome. As you should realize, that caused some ill will and then the Protestants killed any violent Catholic they could find but, again, it was a fight for political dominance, not religion.

    ...the salem witch trials? Now the puritans, that was a real sane bunch Suppose they believe 90 percent of what you believe??
    First, you misunderstand history; the Salem witch trials were about witches, not religion.

    Mormans? Jws? yup there protestant too! Do they believe the same 90 percent as you. That would explain alot
    No Lloyd, they are not Protestant. In fact they aren't Christian at because they live in an entirely different spiritual world. (Ditto Jim Jones, et al.)

    ...Whats next? You going to claim priest molest kids and protestant ministers dont
    No, I won't claim perfection in ministers. But I will claim that I know of no denomination except your's that has a "defective priest protection program" in place.


    That's enough.

  17. #57
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    Gentlemen-- this thread continues to be closely watched. It seems as though you are about to reignite the Thirty Years War. Soon comments about other's religions will bring a close to the thread. Warning.

  18. #58
    Boolit Master

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    Thank you guardian for your spiritual insight and well reasoned defense of the faith.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  19. #59
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    Hogtamer,

    Praise God you were able to get something out of it. Thank you for the encouragement.

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    No doubt, there are more people "in" church than "of the church." The number of followers is not what gives something credibility, it merely gives it the appearance of credibility; an illusion. Let us not forget the difference between "church" in Holy reference and "church" as a place to go. Most of us are not clear which one we mean. The two are very different. You may go to the church and not be part of the Church. I don't care which denomination within the Christian faith we want to discuss, that fact applies.
    you said it all right there. Why someone worrys about what church i go to or has to justify his own by putting down other faiths kind of precludes them from calling themselves Christians in the first place. God is great and we all should praise him. I doubt he cares what building you walk into to do it. Probably not a catholic, protestant or jewish line at the pearly gates. No doubt what country you live in what race you are or what state you live in or if whether or not your cross has Jesus on it matters one bit. One thing God isnt going to forgive is your hate and you wanting to make the rift in chistianity even larger. Today ESPECIALLY we should be comming together with a common goal and fighting the liberals that want us gone. There the enemy not the church down the street with a different sign on it thats praying and praising God just like you are.

    The liberals count on the us vs them fights between christians. They know that thats the only way they will make christianity something thats just in history books. Just look at our supreme court right now today. The liberals claiming they dont want a catholic to be appointed basicaly because she has to many morals and isnt willing to budge on killing babies. Saying that Catholics are just to strong in there beliefs. But like you said just going to church doesnt make you a catholic or a baptist ect.

    Pelosi and Biden were born into catholic familys and claim the title but dont walk the walk. The remind me of a Buddhist walking around with a barrett 50 cal. My guess is the same thing applys here. The ones that do the most catholic bashings are the ones that dont even attend there local church. A kkk meeting would make them feel much more at home. Same ones that think the civil war is still happening today and the ones that claim there super patriots but never felt they owed it to this country to serve in the military.

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