What am I

[metricmonkeywrench]

Working long distance to help identify a rifle/action. The owner knows nothing about guns and got it from his Father-in-Laws estate. He apparently saved this and a handful of reloading/casting pieces and some gun parts from the son who was just shoveling stuff into the dumpster to clean out the house. He also has a bare Mk III Brit 303 receiver and barrel.

Late edit, what’s a complete action like that worth?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Most definitely a Japanese Arisaka that has had the bolt handle altered. Measuring the bore will tell you if it's a 6.5mm or a 7.7mm.

[TNsailorman]

Definately a japanese rifle in either 6.5x50mm or 7.7mm.. My take is a Japanese 99 in 7.7mm.

[metricmonkeywrench]

Thanks jaeger and TN, thought it was military but couldn't be sure

Any way he can check bore size/caliber like using a #2 pencil or something?

[Wayne Smith]

If he has a barrel, and it looks as if he does, most of the 6.5 barrels were chrome lined. The 7.7's weren't.

[frkelly74]

There is one gas vent on the receiver ring. It is the type 99, 7.7 if it is as issued. If it were the type 38 it would have two gas vents on the receiver.

[pietro]

Any way he can check bore size/caliber like using a #2 pencil or something?

There's no need, as long as the barrel is original it's 7.7 Jap - the only cartridge the Type 99 was chambered for.

The Type 38 and it's many derivative types were all chambered for the 6.5 Jap (only).

.

[frkelly74]

That is a recurrent nightmare of mine. A dumpster outside the house when I am no longer there to appreciate and defend all my "junk".

[Texas by God]

Arisakas are good actions. That can be made into an excellent rifle. Arguably the strongest military bolt action ever.

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[Der Gebirgsjager]

To respond to your latest question concerning value--- that's a tough one to answer. Even though the war ended some 75 years ago and many were brought home by returning G.I.s, and many more sold in following years as surplus, they remain fairly common.

Although, as TbG said, they're considered very strong actions, unlike Mausers they aren't the first choice for conversion to sporters; mainly because of the somewhat clumsy safety, the knurled knob on the back of the bolt that requires you to push it in and rotate it for engagement. On the plus side, they have a quick release floor plate to assist in unloading the magazine. Despite the safety issue, many have been sporterized, with lots of 6.5 mm models being converted to .257 Roberts, and 7.7mms to wildcats like the 7.7/06. Now days ammo in the original calibers is available from some foreign sources like Norma and PPU.

Judging by the altered bolt handle and jeweling on your specimen, sporterization is a project that someone started on this one. From what I can see in the photos it looks like they did a pretty good job. So, there's two ways one could go on this, to restore it to its as-issued military condition, in which case you'd have to obtain a replacement bolt, or complete the sporter project, which, since the bolt has been altered, a $50-$100 gunsmith job, seems the best route to follow. So, value depends a great deal on condition and how far one intends to go with the sporter job. Looking at your photos it appears that the project was put aside and neglected, and that it's acquired a lot of surface rust. If the bore has become badly rusted/pitted then you're looking at a new barrel, a blue job, and of course you'll need a stock. So, you see, it could easily cost you $250-$300 to make it into a nice sporter, and that's about what it would be worth completed. Myself, admittedly being a little cheap when it comes to such things, would offer you $65 for the whole thing (this is not an offer to purchase!) if I saw it at the gun show. Value is kind of an "iffy" thing, and the value of items such as this depend on the item's condition, what your plans for it are, and how badly someone wants it. I think $65 would be a fair price, but if the bore remains good you might get $100.

By the way, all of these Arisaka rifles had a chrysanthemum flower symbol on the receiver ring indicating that they were the property of the Japanese Emperor. There are at least a dozen story versions out there about why and by whom they were ground off at the end of the war, so if you see an imperfection on the receiver ring of your rifle that is where it was removed. I have two in my accumulation, one early and one late war, and both still have the insignia which indicates that they were G.I. captured and mailed home rather than surrendered at the end of the war. Also, the removal of the emblem in some instances was only half-hearted and sometimes just involved a strike through with something like a cold chisel.

[pietro]

By the way, all of these Arisaka rifles had a chrysanthemum flower symbol on the receiver ring indicating that they were the property of the Japanese Emperor.

There are at least a dozen story versions out there about why and by whom they were ground off at the end of the war

When one entity defeats another, for recorded history the victors dance over the ruins of the defeated - so, the Japanese symbol was most likely ordered removed by depot folks on higher authority.

Just an on-going example not to mess with the victor again.

The 7.7mm Jap I had preformed pretty much like my .30-06's, and factory 7.7 Jap JSP ammo became widely available by the late 1960's (if not earlier)






.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

No doubt that is the overall reason why the Emperor's mark was removed. I have heard (and read) that Gen. Mac Arthur ordered the emblems removed from surrendered rifles. Next version is that the Japanese troops did it before turning them in. Another, many of these rifles were given to other countries like Korea as war reparations and military aid, and they did it, not wanting their troops to have Japanese marked rifles, and these rifles were later imported into the U.S. a surplus. Other, less likely tales exist.

One thing is certain-- sometimes some parts have become very difficult to obtain, like firing pins.

[Lloyd Smale]

strong action but an ugly one. Not to many are going to bother to build a rifle on one. Maybe sporterize a whole gun. If you want to sell it and someone offers you 50 bucks id jump fast. A box of that norma ammo is probably worth more then the action.

[frkelly74]

They do start out ugly but with some love they can be made presentable.


The top type 38 is still in 6.5X51 Jap. the shorter one is 6.5X257.

Got them both for cheap because they were "odd ball" calibers

[Texas by God]

I rebarreled a 38 Arisaka to 8x57 mm and killed a 10" beard Turkey at 300 yards and a nice 8 point buck at 200 yards with it. I was able to fit it in a Bishop stock meant for a Sako/Browning. I shortened the barrel to 16-1/2" and put a William's peep on it and a Win 70 front ramp. I also mounted a 6x Burris on it. A neighbor owns it now and I keep thinking of getting it back from him.

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[Drm50]

My dad was the town electrician and WW2 vet. I would like to have one of the lamps he made out of Jap rifles. He made many and some from 98 mausers too. He brought home a 6.5 Jap and my uncle a 7.7 which I had both. I have recently gave them out in family to those who would appreciate their history. I could be mixed up but I think Norma had 6.5 Jap about 1962. I was 12 I wanted to buy some and Dad wouldn’t let me because a box of Norma was about what a Jap rifle was worth. Most gun shops didn’t want them even on trade. Now it’s different story a uncut Jap will bring at least $200 and up. The Jap stuff was dumped in the ocean after surrender. Never were many parts or surplus ammo for them.