Inline FabricationLoad DataReloading EverythingWideners
Lee PrecisionRepackboxMidSouth Shooters SupplyTitan Reloading
RotoMetals2
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: Barrel liners

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    14

    Barrel liners

    Hello!

    I've acquired an old Hopkins & Allen falling block in 25-20. It's in rough shape; barrel shot out, action is slightly loose, medium pitting, stock is in great shape though. Its going to be a restoration project and I would like to line the barrel in ether 25-20 or 32-20. Haven't decided yet My question is who manufactures barrel liners and what is your experience with them? I have only seen the ones from Brownells (Redmans). I'm guessing they are probably good liners but want to see what else is out there. I searched the forms but didn't see anything within the last couple of years.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Moderator


    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Way up in the Cascades
    Posts
    8,079
    Brownell's would be my go-to vendor, but you could do an internet search (Google) and see what you come up with.

  3. #3
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    14
    I have done a Google search and turned up a couple other brands but no reviews or input. Some I cannot even find a working website leading me to beleive they are no longer in existence. I was asking the community if they had any experience with others, hoping to find brands that may be still in production.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Stephens City, VA
    Posts
    235
    T.J.'s makes many barrel liners from .17 to .58 caliber. They are hammer forged from chrome-moly tubing. Their phone # is 859-635-5560, e-mail is TJsLiners1992@gmail.com, address is P.O Box 531 Alexandria, KY 41001.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,570
    if going to 32-20 rather than getting a drill and liner would probably be about equal cost to spend off to JES for a rebore

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master
    rockrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    5,311
    Don't think JES does 30 cal rebores. I think 338cal is his min.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,957


    I've used TJ's liners on several jobs, no problems.
    Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Switzerland of Ohio
    Posts
    6,313
    Yup - TJ's. Mike still doesn't have a web site, yet he sells all he can make. Must do something right.

    A .25-20 H&A is a bit unusual. Would appreciate a few photos if you can. In may be one of their "high grade" (which is a bit of joke with H&A), target rifles. BTW it will be .25-20 Stevens, not .25-20 WCF, unless it's been rechambered.

    Assuming that it's a medium frame, the fit of that blade-like extractor in its' slot is crucial. When they get loose they slip around the rim and fail to extract. You likely will have to make a new extractor that's thicker to restore the fit. Ask me how I know.
    Cognitive Dissident

  9. #9
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern Nevada
    Posts
    99
    JES can do a 32-20 rebore. He recently did a Marlin 94 in 25-20 to 32-20 for me. I have had him do about a dozen barrels for me and all have turned out great.

  10. #10
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    14
    Sorry for the delay, was out of town. Thank you everyone for the responses. uscra112 here are some photos, I'm not positive on the chambering as I haven't had time to do a chamber casting. I'm going by what I was told. I haven't been able to identify the exact model. found similar ones but not with the same screw pattern on the receiver. Someone also brazed on a lever extension and cut two additional dove tails into the barrel. I'm starting to think the barrel is not original as there are no markings or hint of were a marking should be. It needs a lot of work but I think it will be a fun winter project. It's almost worthless right now so only have time to loose!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	H&A1a.jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	83.6 KB 
ID:	266838
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	H&A2a.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	76.1 KB 
ID:	266839
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	H&A3a.jpg 
Views:	38 
Size:	83.6 KB 
ID:	266840

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Switzerland of Ohio
    Posts
    6,313
    Yup, a "medium frame" I can tell you a lot more about it but my satellite uplink is very flaky today.
    Cognitive Dissident

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Switzerland of Ohio
    Posts
    6,313
    Trying again with my "wall of text" post:

    Yup! That's what we now call the "medium frame". A bastardization of William Davenport's Bay State design, which H&A bought when Bay State went bankrupt in 1888. Bay State rifles were well made but too expensive to sell well.. H&A put the product cheapening engineers to work, and what you have is the result. It didn't sell all that well either.

    Interchangeable barrels was a design feature, which is why it has that flat blade extractor. You slid it laterally on its' pivot screw to engage anything from .22 LR to shotgun cartridges. I've seen a cased set with 20 gauge, .25-20 Stevens, and .38-55 barrels.

    The rebounding hammer limits you to low pressure cartridges. Shooting anything hotter pretty much guarantees blown primers. Which includes the .25-20 WCF, by the way, unless you handload. Some factory ammo is loaded above 25,000 psi. The .32-20 would be my upper limit today. This was a rifle designed before smokeless powder became anything more than a laboratory curiosity.

    That strange slotted affair on the right side they called their "adjustable set trigger". A kludge if there ever was one. It "adjusted" the depth of engagement of the sear. Don't spend much time trying to make it work. It was a dangerous feature when it was new. Many of the medium frames omitted it, which was all to the good.

    That removable-tapered-pin takedown will be badly worn. Plan to ream the frame and barrel for a modern taper pin, drive it home, and forget that the rifle was ever a takedown. Better yet, if yours has the small (non-shotgun) barrel shank, thread a barrel in and be done with it.

    There's precious little good historical or technical information on the medium frame rifles. The best that I know of is a little book that the late Charlie Carder self-published in 1995. (I met him at a gun show in Lima Oh about 1998. He sold me a copy (and signed it). Drawings are crude, but at least he made an effort. deHass devoted a couple of pages to the medium and large frames in his first book. Joseph Vorisek published a history of H&A, but he only devotes one page to the large and medium frame rifles, and much of that is wrong. Cornell Publications has reprints of post-1900 catalogs, and also Carder's little book. Search for Merwin Hulbert to find anything about the medium frames. H&A didn't sell under their own name until after M-H went bankrupt in 1896.

    With patience and perspiration the medium frame can be made into a tolerable rifle. I have one that some some unknown gunsmith must have spent days blueprinting. I paid a pittance for it, but I'm proud to own it.

    My nickel's worth. Have fun with it.
    Last edited by uscra112; 08-27-2020 at 11:06 AM.
    Cognitive Dissident

  13. #13
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    14
    Uscra112, after doing some more reading on the "medium frame," it seams like there may be a little bit of a collectors following for them? I have no intentions of selling it and just wanted a old beater to practice gunsmithing on. However I prefer to not alter or possibly destroy a firearm with potential collectors value. I shifted my collecting to late 1800s - early 1900's, Floberts, Sharps, Martini henrys, etc. and thought this would be a fun little shooter/project that fits my current genre. I bought the rifle for under $200 shipped to my door. My plan was to line the barrel, re-fit barrel to receiver (too loose), tighten up receiver (block loose), fill in extra dove tail cuts in barrel, refinish barrel, and try my hand at color case hardening the action and parts.

  14. #14
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    14
    Posted during my reply, Thanks for the extra info!

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Switzerland of Ohio
    Posts
    6,313
    I wouldn't say that there was very much collector interest, except for odd ducks like me and Charlie Carder. That gunsmith's meisterstuck I mentioned went begging at $300 on Gunbroker for a couple of weeks. In the end I was the only bidder. Go ahead and do your worst to it. You'll be making the proverbial silk purse from a sow's ear.

    As an aside, I know of one guy in the ASSRA who shoots blackpowder .22 rimfire (!) whose competition piece is a Hopkins & Allen. He breech-seats, so the inability of the rifle to crowd a cartridge into the chamber like a Stevens or a Ballard will is irrelevant. A good barrel will always shoot well.

    Phil
    Cognitive Dissident

  16. #16
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    14
    Sounds good, and I know what you mean about the silk purse. I have a old single shot J C Higgins .22 LR rifle I picked up at a gun show for $40. It's what I used to learn how to glass bed, pillar block, install ebony tip, butt plate with maple spacer, and jeweled bolt. Purdiest darn Higgins you ever seen!

    Blackpowder .22rimfire, now that's dedication!

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Switzerland of Ohio
    Posts
    6,313
    Not much interested in originality, me. I like to collect examples of the individual gunsmith's artistry.
    Cognitive Dissident

  18. #18
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    14
    Did a chamber casting, it is a 25-20 WCF. I'll probably re line to that and keep the loads on the light side.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Switzerland of Ohio
    Posts
    6,313
    Good plan. The WCF brass is easier to find than the Stevens nowadays.
    Cognitive Dissident

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy JLF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    Alvarez (ARGENTINA)
    Posts
    158
    Beautiful rifle. I would make a case hardening to the action and the barrel and other pieces a blued with lime.
    Sorry if I left the topic.
    "When the homeland is in danger, everything is allowed, except not to defend it."

    Gral. Don José de San Martin.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check