A Mini-14 Discussion

[Hogtamer]

Excellent!

[gnostic]

The strength of the Mini 14/30 is it's reliability and the speed of getting on target. The Mini just comes up from low gun, to sight alignment faster than anything I've ever shot. I believe the accuracy issues are a result of the wood to metal fit between the action and stock. Years ago match shooters accurized Garands with toothpicks used as wood to metal shims. Glass bed a Mini and the accuracy will improve substantially...

[murf205]

Actually, I have been reading this thread with great interest, the last few comments notwithstanding. I have been considering purchasing a Mini 14 because I like the action type and the stock style.
All the reports of less than stellar accuracy put me off since I really like an accurate rifle. I don't really care much for the Ar style. I guess it is just my age and the guns I grew up with don't look like that.
I would like to get a semi-auto rifle in 223 that uses AR type mags due to their availability. Perhaps I need to look a little closer at the Kel Tec SB16.
The reviews, while not stellar, have been acceptable in both function and accuracy.

Taz, I have to tell you, the newer Mini-14 that I have with the tapered barrel is quite a bit more accurate than the previous 2 skinny barrel ones. Like I said before, with TAC and the midsouthshooterssupply varmint nightmare, it does 2" @ 100 yds and the brown box Fed 55gr fmj rounds go into the same group and shoot 2" as well. This is with a 4x Leupold. It's a long way from a benchrest gun but it will do what I need it to with ease. It pitches brass about as far as it does boolits but that can be rectified with a gas bushing change. I guess that I have been a M-14 guy since I was issued one in 1967 at lovely Ft Polk, La.

[tazman]

Two inch groups I could live with. I just wish the rifle accepted AR mags.

[yeahbub]

I once had a 181 series stainless Mini-14. When I got it, it was a cheap $300 and I was a man on a mission! Then I found out why it was so easily parted from its former owner. The first range trip produced groups measured in feet, about two of them at 100 yards. A bore examination revealed so much copper that the rifling could barely be seen. It took about a week of evenings, doing the brush with Sweets 7.62, watch TV until the commercials came on, patch and re-brush with Sweets before the white patches going in started to be lighter than new blue jeans when they came out. Once I had cleared the copper, I noticed it copper fouled very quickly and took all evening to clean. I had a look with a bore-scope and saw why. IIRC, the barrels were button rifled and this one must have squealed piteously when it was done, because the chatter marks in the grooves looked like an aerial view of railroad ties between the tracks. I pressure lapped the barrel with just enough pressure to get the cast boolits to exit the bore and eventually got to where the chatter marks were barely visible. I finish lapped with some 600 and then 800 grit and called it good. I found I could shoot a 10-round string with only traces of copper and keep them all in a 4” circle - a vast improvement, but still not where I thought the rifle would perform. I noticed that another of this one’s problems was that the sliding op rod/gas block would collide with the action on ejecting (a vigorous hammer blow with factory ammo) and crack into the barrel gas block on chambering the next round, producing movement of the action in the stock. The spent case would depart into low earth orbit. I determined the necessary range of op-rod/block movement for reliable functioning and installed a 1/8”+ thick square piece of soft rubber gasket material covering the front of the action, which cushioned the extraction blow, and a .060 piece of textured gasket material on the back of the gas block affixed to the barrel, to blunt the impact on the return trip. The stock was glass-bedded to increase the amount of tightness provided when the trigger guard was cammed into place. Groups with factory ammo shrunk to 1.5-2”, but ejection beyond recovery was still a problem. I started playing with faster propellants and bullets with longer engagement surfaces to reduce port pressures and settled on AA 1680 and flat-base 55-60 grain SPs. I was able to reliably get MOA results by loading to control port pressures and that stainless Mini became my favorite small game rifle. Factory ammo was still a problem due to the wild ejection and I was unaware of the availability of aftermarket gas port orifices to tame the ejection madness, so shooting factory ammo and getting spiffy accuracy wasn’t an option. I eventually sent that rifle on down the road with ample info on load data and what it took to produce fine accuracy with it. The purchaser was an experienced hanloader who understood what he was getting. I learned a great deal from that rifle and what it took to tailor ammo to a particular rifle to massage good performance out of it. The days of having nothing but time and curiosity are history now, but I have made good use of the lessons learned to solve the puzzles other rifles presented.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Very good informative and educational write-up, yeahbub. You exhibited more tenacity than I probably would have.

[Texas by God]

Two inch groups I could live with. I just wish the rifle accepted AR mags.

That would tickle me as well, but I'd put up with Ruger's excellent mags for that kind of accuracy from a Mini. The quick mount gnostic mentions reminds me of the M1 Carbine.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[LAH]

Outpost75, thanks for the info.

[Uncle Grinch]

I recently purchased a NIB 2016 Mini-14 that the original owner had an AccuStrut system added along with a recoil buffer. I was prompted to buy it due to today’s political environment. It has the heavier barrel as noted at the gas port area. I certainly hope it shoots accurate enough to satisfy me. Only thing is I don’t know what that is. Hope to make it to the range next week.

While I did buy this particular Mini-4, if given the choice, I would have gotten a Mini-30. The 5.56 round works, but the 7.62 round is a more practical caliber in my opinion.

[murf205]

Two inch groups I could live with. I just wish the rifle accepted AR mags.

That would be nice, since they almost sell AR mags at the grocery store! I have read that some have good success with steel aftermarket mags. Of course the Ruger marked mags function best, they are pricey. I wonder who makes the magazines for Ruger.

[KLR]

I bought a new Ranch Rifle back in the 80's. Despite all I did, I couldn't guarantee a hit on a pie plate at 100 yards. I did everything I could including trigger work, bedding, swapping numerous scopes, and a great amount of load work. I finally sold it.

A couple of years ago I bought a new one to tinker with and see how accurate I could make it. I've only shot a couple of boxes of ammo, but it's a 2" rifle. I put it up to work on it later.

Now you're telling me they are going for over a $1000? Wow. Maybe I'm not that interested in seeing if I can make it shoot with my ARs..... Where's the best place to sell it?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Well, KLR, I think you're kidding (maybe) but I decided that I wanted a stainless Mini-30 a couple of weeks ago. The natural place to look was Gunbroker, and they had perhaps 8 of them, including one brand new one being sold by a dealer who had a buy-it-now for right at $1,300. On the next visit two days later it was gone. Must have sold for the buy-it-now price, as the auction still had two days to run.

There was only one other new one, also being sold by a dealer, with a then-current bid of $800-- but it had 9 days to go before the auction closed. I suspect it's still on there if you want to look. There were a couple of others, older, a little used and abused, in the $800 range, but the auctions weren't over. I decided to go for a blue model, used but like new, starting a $999.99. It only had 3 hours to go, and I bid $1,000 (because I didn't want to have to fill out a money order for $999.99) and figured it was in the bag. Somebody bought it for $1,100, buy-it-now, and I missed out.

There was one more, a like new stainless made (according to the serial no.) in 2004. It had everything I wanted and a couple of things I didn't. A large Bushnell scope, a limb saver butt pad, and a flash suppressor. It had the old style front sight, which I prefer to the new one, and a nice wooden stock. I bought it for $1,170 including shipping. The receiving dealer will charge me $30 for the paperwork, so I'm looking at an even $1,200. Suggested manufacturer's retail price from the Ruger website is $1,061.

At this time, under these circumstances, I guess that's how it is. If you want to play you have to pay. I did check several other sources including Davidson's Gallery of Guns, and they were sold out and had a note saying that this model is currently on allotment from the factory. Want to sell yours? Try Gunbroker. If it's in nice shape it will easily go for $1,000 in a few days. Right at this time these are in great demand, and I can't think of any reason except for the possibility of having to deal with serious social events. Maybe in a few months the market will be flooded with them, if the demand diminishes and the factory cranks out a bunch. Maybe not. I almost convinced myself that one of my SKS rifles would serve the same purpose, but prefer the Garand-type of bolt action, stock shape, and trigger group. I received an answer to a question I posed to Ruger's Customer Service this afternoon, and the bore on my later model is .310"-.3115"
Eventually photos will be posted.

[KLR]

Well, thanks for the info. I wrote that tongue-in-cheek, but now I'm seriously mulling it over at those prices. My Mini could pass for NIB, so it would bring a good price.

Since you mentioned an SKS, that was the final straw that pushed me to sell my first mini. I bought a $169 Chinese rifle that could shoot circles around my Mini. And with open sights and surplus ammo.

[W.R.Buchanan]

A smaller gas port bushing will reduce slide velocity, but may cause malfunctions with some ammunition.

And therein lies the entire accuracy problem with Mini 14's I am surprised you didn't mention this sooner as you must have been aware of the effect the big chink of steel on the op rod has when it hits the front of the receiver, thus repositioning it in the stock with every shot!

I felt this happening on my 580 series gun, and noticed that it launched brass 50 feet to my right. Only 30 feet with my reduced loads. Mark Gurney told me about the Reliability issue with under gassing and I just went Phlibbb!. There is no factory loaded .223/5.56 ammo that is that weak, and Ruger doesn't care about your Reloads, but they are still shipping them over gassed from hell.

ASI used to make a new Gas Piston with a hole drilled and tapped 4-40 in the front end. I got one and had to drill a hole in the gas block for the screw to protrude.(See Pic) Closed all the way it won't cycle. Open one turn it poops brass out 5 feet to the right. This eliminated the bashing of the op rod into the receiver and the result is a 1 MOA Mini 14 with no other mods. Now ASI sells replacement Gas Bushings so you can tune your gun to whatever ammo you are shooting.

This is all over the Perfect Union Mini 14 Forum.

Brian Pearce did an excellent article on Mini 14 Accuracy and I was the source for lots of it including the over gassing part.

Here's a target I have shown many places.(See Pic) it just shows what these guns will do with only a simple mod to them. I even called Mark and suggested that they supply different Gas Bushings with the guns so a guy could tune it for whatever ammo he was shooting.

The biggest problem Mini 14's have, is the Reputation they garnered for inaccuracy in the early days of their existence, which has carried over until now. Even though the guns from 580 on are excellent, lots of the public thinks they are junk because of so many who experienced the older guns, when nothing could be further from the actual truth with regard to the newest ones. I love beating the AR guys with mine... All of this could have been avoided by simply changing one simple .10 part!

The only other problem that gun has is the Price. They are over $1,000 now and you can get an AR from Ruger for a little over half that.

I'll be beating those AR guys this weekend with my Mini 14!

Randy

[1006]

I acquired a Lightly used Mini that I think was a 193 series. I know it was 19something. It was a 223/5.56, stainless, had an AccuStrut installed, and came to me with 1 Ruger 20 round mag and two aftermarket 30 round mags. It was very reliable—never jammed. I sold it due to accuracy issues while target shooting. The first shot was dead on at 100 yards. The next few stayed within a couple of inches, but after the barrel started to heat up, the shots started to climb up the target vertically.

I think it was a good gun, but I am primarily a target shooter. Eventually, I sold the Mini and tried a very well made, and beautiful new Beretta MR1–still resisting the AR15. I just never liked the AR15’s looks. But, the Beretta shoots as poorly as the Mini. It doesn’t vertically string shots, but it won’t group them tighter than 2 inches either. So, I tried a Rock River AR15 that a friend who needed money had for sale. It cost me $1000 bucks, and shoots MOA accurate with ease and with most ammo. I never looked back, now I have two.

I think the Mini is a fine gun for what it was designed to do, but the AR is more accurate and a good bit less expensive to own. Of course, if 7.62x39 is your preferred caliber, maybe the Mini is the best choice.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Great posts, information, and photos. My Mini-30 isn't scheduled to arrive at the FFL's establishment for a couple of days yet, and it's unknown when I'll be able to pick it up due to the background check backlog. I will post some photos after I take delivery.

The gas block modification is very interesting. Since mine is in 7.62x39mm it will be a wait and see situation, and will depend on performance.

It is true that Ruger's AR is currently very available, and at a price well below what the Minis are currently selling for. I get an e-mail ad almost every day from CDNN showing them for around $800. Everything considered, were I to decide that I absolutely had to own an AR, that would probably be the deal I'd go for. There are so many AR manufacturers one has to wonder how they all can survive; but I'm pretty sure Ruger will be around for many years to come. The only reservation I would have is that they are known to quit servicing older models like my 180-series Mini-14 with the cracked bolt roller.

[koger]

I recently mounted a scope and zeroed it for an older buddy, he had bought the stainless Mini 14 in .223 and it had been sitting for too long. I mounted a Vortex viper, 3x9x40, took 6 shots to zero it at 100yds, and I shot a 5 shot group, with Winchester 5.56 white box. The group was dead on 1 inch, in a nice round pattern. I then shot a 5 shot group with some 55gr sp handloads. They went into 3/4". I could not ask for more from a bone stock factory rifle that has not even been broke in yet. I had been watching this thread, and was glad to shoot the rifle and add my recent results. Every one of the new minis since the retool that I have shot, will do 1 1/2" groups or better at 100yds. The older guns, it was a 50/50 crap shoot on whether you got a shooter or not.

[tazman]

I am interested in getting one of these but want to make sure it is a later version. How do I tell the difference?

[murf205]

I am interested in getting one of these but want to make sure it is a later version. How do I tell the difference?

Taz, I'm pretty sure the newer guns start the serial numbers with 580 and up. The barrels on the post shutdown (more accurate) rifles have a taper in the barrel just in front of the forend. Look at a close up of Uncle Grinch's post #49. THAT'S...what a rifle should look like! Murf

[Uncle Grinch]

I am interested in getting one of these but want to make sure it is a later version. How do I tell the difference?

Tazman, mine is a 583-xxxx series, but if you look at the picture above and concentrate whebthe Barrel comes out of the forearm, you can see a taper on the barrel. The older series do not have this.