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Thread: 455 WEBLEY brass

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    455 WEBLEY brass

    what can I make them out of and how do I do it? and what is a good safe load for it? I have a MK-6, not shaved.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master


    Nueces's Avatar
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    Good for you, I have never located an unshaved one. My thoughts on brass begin with the Starline 45 Cowboy Special, a shortened 45 Colt case, same length as 45 ACP:

    https://www.starlinebrass.com/45-cowboy-special

    Shortening 45 Colt cases gives difficulties because of the thicker brass near the head - trouble with bulging the case while seating bullets. The 45 Auto Rim cases have a large chamfer on the back end, which makes thinning those rims from the front (to preserve the primer pocket) inadvisable.

    PM me your address and I'll send you a small supply of Cowboy Special cases you can try.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    The short 0.76" .455 MkII brass from Starline is excellent and uses a large primer like the Hornady cases of 2008-2010. The Fiocchi brass is also good, but uses a small primer. Safe loads with 265-grain lead bullets are 3.5 grains of Bullseye, 4 grains of WST or 452AA, or 4.5 grains of Unique, which all approximate the service velocity of 600 fps in a revolver with normal cylinder gap not exceeding 0.010". With larger barrel-cylinder gaps I have fired up to 0.015" using soft lead, lubricated bullets these loads will still exit the barrel reliably, at the expense of reduced velocity around 500-550 fps.

    Be aware that much published .455 load data is based on the longer CIL-Canuck .455 Colt brass which is longer, about 0.87", and that substituting those loads in the shorter MkII case will spike pressure. Some published loads which work fine in the Colt New Service and S&W .455 Hand Ejector revolvers are excessive in even a sound MKVI, and may result in shearing off the barrel catch pivot screw and damaging the frame.

    Some people have fabricated .455 Colt/Eley cases by shortening Starline .45 Schofield brass to 0.87" and thinning the rims from the front, and this is correct if you want to shoot black powder loads in the older MkI through MkIII revolvers which were not proved for smokeless powder. The CIL cases have not been made for many years, and are rare and highly collectible. In a MkVI there is no advantage to using the longer case, with appropriate mild smokeless loads, producing pressures not exceeding 13,000 psi, assembling correct loads with SOFT bullets which "fit."

    If you would PM me with an email address which will accept a 2MB .pdf attachment I can send you a back issue of The Fouling Shot which has a detailed article on loading for the .455, with useful cautionary information on loads and common cylinder and barrel dimensional issues.

    Both my Boer War model MkIV and 1914 MkVI had cylinder throats which were tighter than barrel groove diameter, as this was common practice to get efficient burning of the small powder charge. Whilst the MkII hollow-based service bullet of 1 to 16 tin-lead was forgiving of these conditions, accuracy is greatly improved by having the cylinder throats uniformed. DougGuy honed my cylinder to uniform them and remove most pitting or frosting resulting from use of corrosive-primed ammuntion. Accuracy was much improved by using a properly-designed bullet which fit the new cylinder throats, matched barrel groove diameter, and reduced seating depth to enable seating the bullet out to avoid excessive free bullet travel when shooting the short MkII case in the longer .455 Webley/Colt/Eley chamber. Doing so also maintains a low loading density which is absolutely necessary to avoid pressure spikes in the shorter MkII cases.

    Accurate 45-262H and 45-264D are my designs for the .455

    Attachment 266533Attachment 266534Attachment 266535
    Last edited by Outpost75; 10-07-2020 at 10:02 PM.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    Toot,
    Like you I have an unshaven Webley. I use Fiocchi .455 Webley without any issues. Except cost.
    There was an article written in Handloader Magazine in January 2017, detailing reloading for the Webley. It was even on the cover of that issue. You may be able to still get a copy or read it online still.
    It will help answer some questions you may have. And there was a youtube video of a man reloading that cartridge and his results call Reloading for the Webley part 1 and 2.
    These both may help or at least give you interesting reading along with what Outpost75 will send you.

  6. #6
    Boolit Bub winchester 71's Avatar
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    why go through the hassle..............look in PIF...............Brass Magnet has brass ready to run.................

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy ReloaderEd's Avatar
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    I made a bunch of .455 brass from 45 Long colt brass. Have a small sherline lathe. Requires taking the rim diameter down and machining the end of the case rim. Then of coarse shortening the case. https://loaddata.com/Cartridge/455-W...nt-Models/1149

  8. #8
    Boolit Master smkummer's Avatar
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    I modified 20 Starline 45 S&W cases before I lucked out finding original CIL (dominion) 455 colt empty brass. After doing all the work, 45 Colt does not leave much rim at all for double action extraction. That’s why I used 45 S&W. 45 auto rim only requires one mod. ( thinning rim) but it may cost close to the same as Starline 455 MKII cases. In my case my time is worth something and I like correctly marked cases when possible.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    winchester71, thanks for the info. already took of it, toot.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I load them with .240 SWC. & .230 GR. RN. .452 DIA. behind a load of 3.00 GRS. of BULLS EYE. same load for both, shoot great.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    no they don't key hole either. hit straight on.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    I probably don't NEED to say this, except for my own peace of mind, so please indulge me. I counsel the use of moderation in charge weights when reloading. The shaved Webleys have a way of loosening up when fed a steady diet of full-power .45 AutoRim, so keep your loads "low & slow". 260 grains of soft lead at 600 f/s is all you need, and there's not really much wrong with 230 gr. LRN at the same velocity. If the accuracy doesn't suffer, you might find the use of a SAECO #58 215gr. SWC bullet a pleasure to shoot from it. It would take little in the way of propellant to launch it at 600 f/s.

    JMHO
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  13. #13
    Boolit Bub
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    I, too, have an unshaven Webley. I use 45 Colt brass and thin the rim on my lathe (wood lathe...not the best, but it works). I also got an MP hollow base mold that is a work of art and produces awesome projectiles.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    Starline has MK II brass, Buffalo Arms has Mk 1 brass. https://www.buffaloarms.com/455-colt-cases-890-455colt

    The Lee 1st edition loading manual (red book) has MK II load data for Alliant powders.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    thank you for the reply. I will Shu rely look it up.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    saolcaptain, great! I will check it out.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    seacaptian, story a senior moment!

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Cases from 45LC are fine for conversion and dirt cheap too!
    Trim to length and trim rim from the front.
    500+ will take no more than an afternoon.
    You can go as long as 0.9", in mine at least!

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nueces View Post
    Good for you, I have never located an unshaved one. My thoughts on brass begin with the Starline 45 Cowboy Special, a shortened 45 Colt case, same length as 45 ACP:

    https://www.starlinebrass.com/45-cowboy-special

    Shortening 45 Colt cases gives difficulties because of the thicker brass near the head - trouble with bulging the case while seating bullets. The 45 Auto Rim cases have a large chamfer on the back end, which makes thinning those rims from the front (to preserve the primer pocket) inadvisable.

    PM me your address and I'll send you a small supply of Cowboy Special cases you can try.
    I went through all that. 45 Colt cases must be reamed inside.

    The easiest method is to modify 45 Cowboy Special.

    The best method IMO is to modify 45 Schofield, it has lager diameter rim than 45 Colt and 45 Cowboy Special. I had done this modification years ago, and if I remembered correctly, no inside reaming was required.

    DO NOT TURN RIM ON THE LATHE, it slow and tedious. Make a die like this one, and just squeeze the rim:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Use strong machine wise or hydraulic press. Much easier, faster, uniform thickness, and as a benefit rim gets bit wider dia. If using hydraulic press, you can make more than one nest in a die.
    Last edited by Onty; 02-20-2021 at 02:13 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check