The congregation of Christians I worship with are not like this.
The congregation of Christians I worship with are not like this.
My charity does not have to pass through a church so the church does not take a cut. More of my charity goes to the people who need help. What had you jumping to the assumption that I did not give to charity? Do you only give to the church? Their you go talking about what a book I already told you I don't always agree with, says. Do you understand any other theology beside the Bible? Don't you understand that just like rote prayer and repetition, group prayer and fellowshipping with people who mostly all agree is more brainwashing and cultic techniques. The people who wrote the bible knew how to manipulate people.
Tim
Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS
The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton
The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides
I can’t fault Tim for giving to charity or otherwise helping others. My personal view is that I’m a steward for some things but that God owns it all. Sometimes he tells me to help someone, so I do. I don’t do these things to be saved, I do them because I am saved, it is part of my celebration.
I also give to the church. Sometimes I pay attention to how they spend money, but I’m more interested in their teaching. If the teaching seems solid then I’ll stick around and give them some of God’s money to help with their ministry. Who am I to judge how such a gift is used? I used to be upset at the idea that it might be used for nice furniture or that it might get to some bum who would find a way to convert it to drugs, but I gave that up.
I also can’t fault him for saying that God is everywhere.
Tim, may I ask why you are here? Without the structure of an organized religion you don’t have the associated need to grow or need to save others (depending on perspective). You don’t seem to be concerned that a bunch of us are facing severe adverse consequences because of our faith. You mention that some might be brainwashed, but there seems to be no ill effect as a result. In short, you aren’t evangelizing. It would be petty and shallow to take pot shots at organized religion, we all recognize that it’s a flawed construct of man. So why are you here? Did God perhaps send you simply to be the foil?
Thanks for your considerate response.
You are going to have to help me with "a bunch of us are facing severe adverse consequences because of our faith." I seem unconcerned because I am unaware. Which Faith and what severe adverse consequences. I know that Christians feel like they are under attack and yes, many on the left are very critical of Evangelicals but what are these severe adverse consequences. The attacks from the left are not about faith they are about politics. The left mistakenly believes that all Evangelicals are racist and sexist, a White Supremist Patriarchy. I have not seen reports of severe adverse impacts on Evangelicals. Are we talking about job or housing discrimination? Are we talking about violent attacks on Churches?
"Why am I here? I came because of the shooting and casting discussions. I always enjoyed theological and philosophical discussions. It really started in Middle School with playground talks with my friends and led to late night discussions in the dorm at university. In between I had a bit of a epiphany that put me on a path to my current beliefs. I am motivated to share and question. We have for too long worried too much about ourselves and the material world and religion has not done enough to counter that. I am too evangelizing not for a religion but for reformed behavior. I want everyone to take better care of God's creations and God's children. I am not here to convert people to a new religion. I am here to encourage people to look outside their bubble to see a bigger picture and to try and encourage them to be better people. To love more and hate less.
It is not a problem with Jesus teachings but with people not understanding that accepting Jesus means you need to model the behavior he taught not just accept that by claiming Jesus as your savior you are saved. You can't claim Jesus if you don't do everything you can to act how Jesus would want you to act. I think many who think they are saved are not because they are not forgiven because they are not truly sorry for their sins. Repent and be saved. Own your mistakes and fix them if you can. You can't make mistakes and just move on. We may all be sinners but some of us when we sin we feel bad and feel the need to fix what we broke.
I also believe that you can deny Jesus but if you act like Jesus would want you to act then you will be saved. Jesus did not want us to worship him, he wanted us to act with love and kindness to all the world. When I talk like this I get responses for scripture denying that acts lead to salvation. Yes, it is not that acts that save you it is the love behind those actions that saves you. It is not what you do or don't do but what is in your heart. Not what you did or did not do but why you did or did not do it. It is actually greedy and sinful to lust after salvation. You need to be more concerned about doing good than about whether you will be saved. If you only reason you don't do bad things is because you are afraid of hell then you will not be saved.
Almost all devoutly religious are brainwashed. Not just Christians. A religion would not become popular if it did not use well know behavioral modification techniques. This brainwashing has often been a good thing. Religion is the opiate for the masses. It helps keep the peace and keeps the masses from causing disturbances or even revolting. Except when it does the opposite, when the Powers that Be use religion to rally the public against threats to the Establishment.
I think most of the charity that goes to Churches is really used to benefit the congregation and is not really charity but more like club dues.
God is everywhere and what ever you do to God's creations and God's children you do to God. Do good because you love God and God's creations not because you will be saved for you good works but because you will be saved by your loving heart. If your heart is full of love you will have very little room for hate. I don't hate very much but I have a lot of loving sadness for the wrong I see. I would be less sad if I see less wrong, less hate and more understanding. People act they way they do for reasons.
Sinners are lustful, greedy, hateful, gluttonous, envious, prideful, and violent
Lovers are temperate, courageous, prudent, just, faithful, hopeful and charitable.
You seem more like a lover than a sinner to me.
Tim
Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS
The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton
The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides
Thanks Tim,
I am undoubtedly a sinner. I do regret my failings, but they do not cause me too much concern. I have two daughters, and I can’t imagine that there is anything they could do that would make me not love them, how much greater is God’s perfect love for us?
A husband says that he loves his wife, but he beats her and cheats on her, does he love her? I think you’re saying that many people say that they love the lord and accept salvation, but their actions betray what is truly in their hearts. I agree, there are many that lie to themselves, and if your mission is to help people become more aware of how their actions, or inactions, reflect their true beliefs, then I wish you all the best.
I haven’t really given it much thought, but if actions expose beliefs, then while good acts don’t provide salvation, do they demonstrate an acceptance of God’s grace which leads to salvation? It seems to be the flip side of the same coin, but I very much dislike that it puts me/us in control rather than submitting to God. Consider my children again, I hope that they do things to show that they know that I love them, not that they do things (perhaps the same exact things) to earn my love; could a stranger do the same things and earn my love? The actions seem far less important than the intent, especially for the children.
My comment about adverse effects was referring to the question of your intent. I meant are you here evangelizing because you think our salvation is not assured. You addressed my question, so no need to dig into this minor miscommunication.
Church is important. It is a safe place to discuss faith, although it isn’t always a good place to debate faith. It is a place where we first learn to put our faith to work. This supportive environment helps to offset the constant bombardment of negative messages out in “the real world.” For lots of reasons I never fit into a church community as a child, and to this day I tend to avoid church. I don’t think that I need it to be saved, but I now wonder what I could have accomplished towards God’s purpose had I worked with those folks. The saying “all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing” comes to mind. Perhaps I should do more to help the church rather than walk away from it because of my history and its flaws.
Your note deserves a more thoughtful response, but I woke up and started writing this and now hate to discard it. I may amend it in the morning if time permits.
Jim
We have had Confucius and the Lama
save Lao-Tse for another day...
how about Mohatma Ghandi?
"I like your Christ.
I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so
unlike your Christ."
MG
"Live like Jesus did,
and the world will listen."
MG
Had Ghandi sat on an American
railroad track, he would not have
said any of those things.
The Brits managed to stop.
Mohatma Ghandi!
Martin Luther King Jr.channeled him.
If you sit on the tracks, the train will run over you. Ghandi hated the Brits. But the Brits stopped the train! Ghandi was the real deal, his daughter was corrupted. And shot.
I am weary of trolling. Enough. My church is Bible only. No cult. Cults are of people: the world. I would never leave my mind behind. Fellowship. If you don't want to hear the Word of God, there are people who do. Around the old folk's village are wandering people who only get home because the dog they are walking wants dinner. They are lost. Where are their children? Dogwalkers 80 years old from California. They fled, refugees from that evil. Glad I am to take them to church. Gonna needa bus soon. Debate heaven and hell, what are you doing to serve God? Where is your reality? Where is your joy? I dare you. Go do. Enough. Hebrews 5:11 Amen!
Last edited by .429&H110; 09-21-2020 at 09:43 PM. Reason: wrong martin luther
If Christ showed up today, we would kill him again.
Bible Prophecy tell us the future. Choose this day who you will serve. Joshua 24: 15 As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
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