Is your church like this?

[dtknowles]

https://medium.com/backyard-theology...y-18bb0cbff566

It is not just Christians, Mosques, Temples and Synagogues are much the same.

Tim

[Ozark mike]

I will not comment on what they do with there money with the exception of this is why i quit going and they may need more Mississippi squirrels

[Ickisrulz]

It is hard to get away from the expenses of personnel and real estate. But those two areas could be streamlined in many, many cases.

I was once told that a person should get their living from the church when they were too busy with church business to work a secular job. This makes sense to me. I have seen where people are salaried and spend far less than full time (or part time) doing church work. But this doesn't seem to concern many churches, because the person on staff is well liked. It never makes sense to me. Leadership salaries should look like the salaries church members make; not too high and not too low.

Another problem I have seen is that faith-based organizations I have seen are reluctant to get rid of poor performers. People should be working for their salary, even if they are an unpaid volunteer. In this case, churches should be run more like a business that is trying to earn a profit.

A permanent church building is usually desired. I think people are reluctant to just walk into a church service conducted at a private home or even a store front. The problem comes with building projects. My thought is use what you have until you have a congregation that will no longer fit in the existing structure.

Passing out money is something most churches do. Spending money on missions should be done very carefully involving research and oversight. Giving to the poor should also be done intelligently. The Church is not supposed to be funding laziness.

[Blackwater]

It is idiotic to expect churches to exist without buildings and their maintenance! People who read these type articles are just LOOKING for something to complain about, and to disparage our churches, and THAT, my friends, must come from someone with no real faith - just opinions and sensibilities of a very delicate variety. There's nothing wrong with the way most churches spend their money. To think so is merely an expression of one's agnosticism or atheism. People have been railing at the Christian church and churches for 2,000 years, and never once have they mattered, or affected the church. It goes on like a wagon going downhill! And many thanks to God for that, too!

[dtknowles]

It is not just Christian Churches, see my thread starting post. Have you seen some of the huge, ornate, expensive religious buildings that have been built all around the world. Some of them in countries that can't feed their people. Look at the Catholic Churches with Gold candlesticks and chalices. Do you think that is what God wants?

Tim

[smithnframe]

They're all after money!!!

[1hole]

Tim, your valid examples of the vain glorious RCC errors and excesses for the last 2,000 years hardly applies to those of us who reject those practices today so your attempt to paint us with their same brush falls flat.

I have no urge to address the RCC, Muslims, Hebrews, etc.; they aren't in my Godly assigned area of responsibility.

[tarbe]

The author is seeing the disconnect, but still does not quite "get it".

Why do I say that? This statement: "The Church talks so much about changing the world, and transforming peoples’ lives. Well, it turns out, it has the financial means to actually carry out this mission".

The author actually believes it is by human effort and spending, that the Gospel is advanced?

God doesn't "need" our money to change the world. He changes it however He pleases...often in spite of our fumbling human efforts.

Does money help? Sometimes. Does money hurt? Sometimes.

[country gent]

I want to say Ray Stevens but dont think its the right singer so will say it like this, The singer writer of The Streak has several of these gun ditties One of them Is would Jesus wear a rolex. Listen to it and it says a lot

[tarbe]

Look at the Catholic Churches with Gold candlesticks and chalices. Do you think that is what God wants?

Tim

Nope. God is looking for children who will humbly serve and worship Him because He is worthy. Regardless of socioeconomic status, designer clothes or good looks!

Remember the prayer of the tax collector? God have mercy on me, a sinner!

[dtknowles]

Tim, your valid examples of the vain glorious RCC errors and excesses for the last 2,000 years hardly applies to those of us who reject those practices today so your attempt to paint us with their same brush falls flat.

I have no urge to address the RCC, Muslims, Hebrews, etc.; they aren't in my Godly assigned area of responsibility.

We could simply believe that your answer should have been. "No my Church is not like that." I for one would believe you. I have been to Churches that were modest. Another that is not so modest is the LDS. Think the Mormon Tabernacle. I expect that some place on the planet there is a Mosque that is modest with a pious congregation. The point isn't that all churches and religions raise a lot of money that mostly creates wealth for the denomination and the leaders. The point is that many churches and religions raise a lot of money that mostly enriches the pastor and the denomination. Catholic Churches are selling real estate to raise money to pay for law suits but the Vatican has sheltered itself from these lawsuits saying that each parish/diocese stands alone so they can file bankruptcy and the greater church is not liable.

[dtknowles]

....I have no urge to address the RCC, Muslims, Hebrews, etc.; they aren't in my Godly assigned area of responsibility.

You might want to check with God on that one again.

Galatians 6:1-2
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

[Thunder Stick]

My independent, non denominational, Biblical church gives 50% of receipts to missions and missionaries. We just paid off a property for a church in the Philippines that came to $7,500 USD.

Our pastor never preaches about money or tithing and has no idea how much is received in offerings. Only the church book keeper knows that.

There are six persons on staff at our church, of which I am one. Total yearly gross salaries is $100,000. $9,500 of that goes to me.

Our church is 7 years old. Each year, the senior pastor has taken a voluntary cut in pay. Every year.

The balance of our receipts goes to neighborhood outreach, facilities maintenance, utilities and insurance.

We have both English only and a Spanish only services each Sunday, as well as various mid week gatherings like women’s, men’s, youth, kids, etc.

We also have a gun club.

[dverna]

Our church recently completed a $200k expansion to serve those with special needs. My son is a special needs person but I did not agree with using that much money to help boost church attendance for that sector of our community so I did not contribute.

Last spring we were to have a Men's Conference and the cost was $40 each to attend. At the last minute the conference was cancelled due to Covid-19 and they did not refund the money. It was in excess of $40k.

The church is very "successful". Largest in the area...service is aired on radio and TV, and streamed on the internet. Every week we are "reminded" to give and there are various "buckets" that need filling....Elders Fund, normal tithes and offerings, missions, construction projects.

I stopped giving about 3-4 months ago. How they handled the Men's Conference left me cold. I told them I did not want the money back so it was not a personal "loss", but I am sure there were others who felt their money had been "stolen". What troubled me the most was they used scripture to justify their actions. When quoting the Bible is used to justify doing what is blatantly wrong, it is telling.

If the pastor was not as good as he is, and we did not have friends there, I would leave for another church.

[1hole]

The very few money crazy "churches" I know of are TV variations of the old "name it and claim it" and "give us your seed money" type; they are invariably "works" and "happy-clappy/feel good about yourself", not Biblically, oriented. But, most churches are good stewards and few ministers or staff are ever financially secure.

[1hole]

....Last spring we were to have a Men's Conference and the cost was $40 each to attend. At the last minute the conference was cancelled due to Covid-19 and they did not refund the money. ........

........ I stopped giving about 3-4 months ago. How they handled the Men's Conference left me cold. I told them I did not want the money back so it was not a personal "loss", but I am sure there were others who felt their money had been "stolen".

I make no judgement because I don't know anything but what you post. I do however know a little of how such things are planned and how a good bit of money must be committed and distributed BEFORE many large scale events can even get off the ground.

I wonder, did your Church leaders make the decision to keep the money and not make refunds or were they also caught helpless on the facts of this C-19 politically motivated shut-down?

[dverna]

I make no judgement because I don't know anything but what you post. I do however know a little of how such things are planned and how a good bit of money must be committed and distributed BEFORE many large scale events can even get off the ground.

I wonder, did your Church leaders make the decision to keep the money and not make refunds or were they also caught helpless on the facts of this C-19 politically motivated shut-down?

The way I look at it, it does not matter. If you take money to provide a service, you provide the service or return the funds. It is a "business" in the end. No different if a concert event is cancelled...money is returned.

It would have been better if they had asked people to help them out by "donating" the ticket price to cover whatever costs they had incurred. Most "Christians" would have done so but for the church to make the decision it was wrong. I told them to keep my funds before the church made their decision....so it did not affect me financially.

Bear in mind this occurred while they were asking for $150k for the Speical Needs expansion and they actually collected over $200k.

The church has a budget of about a million dollars a year. $40k would have not been a devastating hit and like I said, many of the participants would likely have not asked for a refund...the church covered their butt and did not trust in mankind or God IMHO.

[Blackwater]

It really doesn't matter what kind of decorations and gildings a church has. What DOES matter is what is in the hearts of those who attend there. I have never gone inside a Catholic church and failed to be inspired. The plainer ones inspire me, and the classic old ones leave me in awe of all the things that were done to honor our Lord, and hopefully, to please Him. Christ deserves all the honor and praise we can send His way. Why not gold and silver and objects of beauty? It's what's in the artist's and craftsmen's hearts that matters. All else will disappear one day. Even the finest artwork, etc. Misers don't see it that way, but then, misers miss a lot of things.

[.429&H110]

My North Pole Pastor taught me this one when I asked him if Carhardts were ok, 'cause I worked after church:

One Sunday a cowboy visited church
He looked like a cowboy
He walked like a cowboy
He talked like a cowboy
Had cowboy stuff on his cowboy boots.
After the service the minister said: "I want you to go home and pray about what to wear next Sunday".
So the next Sunday the cowboy was back same as ever.
"I thought I told you to pray about what to wear to church!"
"Well... I did... and God said He'd never been to your church so He wouldn't know what to wear".

(But we would thank you to clean up a little.)
(I miss Pastor Troy)

[1hole]

Seems most organized religions are anti-gun, pro immigrant, pro socialism. I'm pro American, so that doesn't sit well.

You make an interesting observation about "most organized religions." I'm old enough to have watched a few church and even denominational splits over the questions of are Christians to be more concerned about things of God or social engineering. Seems every religious organization begins with the right focus and grows to a peak. Then "liberal" wolves in leadership will take off their sheep skins and burrow into the headquarters and the downward spiral of spiritual corruption begins.

Religious "social club" libs first take control of individual congregations and then whole denominations with demonic ideas of self aggrandizement and works instead of continuing to cling to scripture until the breakaway pattern of church doctrinal corruption and renewal repeats itself.