Anybody else have problems with CCI 500 spp failing to fire?

[poppy42]

Just curious if anybody else has had any issues with CCI 500 small pistol primers? In a little while over a month ago I had it off to the range with my Kel-Tec PF9. After trying round after round( I loaded up several magazines worth) not one round went off. After examining the rounds they all appear to have light primer strikes. I was convinced there was an issue with my gun.
I completely stripped the gun down removing the firing pin clean the firing pin channel out and went back to the range with the same bag of ammo. Same thing happened. I went so far as to contact Kel-Tec about sending the gun back on the warranty. I decided against sending it back based on what it was gonna cost me to ship it and what I felt the value of the gun was. I’m glad I didn’t.
In the following week I got my Ruger SR 9EE back from Ruger where I was having some work done. Included with the firearm was the test results basically saying they put 30 rounds through my gun, they included one spent cartridge and assuring me that gun checked out fine. Off to the range I went with my Ruger and the same bag of ammo that I had the issues with the Kel-Tec. Much to my surprise the same thing happened with the Ruger. Not one around went off. Every round appeared as if it was a light primer strike. Fortunately I had brought along a different bag of ammo. Every round I loaded from the second batch of ammo functioned fine. All the primer strikes looked as they should look! Absolutely no issue!
When I got home I checked my load data to verify and all the ammo I had to issue with had CCI 500 small pistol primers! All from the same batch number. Back to the range I went with the Ruger SR9E, the Kel-Tec PF9, And I also brought along my Bulgarian Makarov. As I had some ammo for the Makaroff loaded from the same batch of CCI primers. None of the ammo that was loaded with the CCI primers Would fire in either the Ruger or the Kel-Tec. As for the 9 x 18 Makaroff rounds, I had a little better luck. I did manage to get a few to go off but most failed to fire. I switch to a different batch of ammo all loaded with Remington 5 1/2 spp. Not a single failure to fire. And I’m not talking about one or two rounds I put roughly 200 rounds through the Ruger and at least a 100 round each through the Kel-Tec and the Makarov. All the rounds that failed to fire had what appeared to be light primer strikes. I pulled several rounds to check for any kind of contamination just in case of. I found no apparent problem with any of the rounds other than the primers failed to fire.
I then called CCI to see if they had any problems with that particular batch of primers. I still have the box that has the batch number. They all come from the same batch.
The first tech I talk to pretty much handed me the company line, “we never have any problems with our primers”, “primers needed to be seated 2 to 4000s below flush“ and that they would be happy to test them for me if I sent the rounds back to them. My entire conversation with this first technician felt like an extreme smoke blowing session!
After stewing over this for a week or so I decided I was going to give CCI another call. I requested and spoke to a senior technician. I explained my situation, inquired about if possibly CCI had changed their cup composition, or if they had had any issues with primers. He seemed sincerely concerned. He informed me that they would pay for the shipping to send the rounds back to them. He sent me a shipping label with instructions what to do. I decided to go ahead. I follow his instructions and sent 20 rounds back to CCI. 10 rounds that were struck once, 10 rounds that weren’t struck at all. At there cost.
Well I got the results back today. Long story short, I was told my guns were faulty. Because of light primer strikes. And the primers were not seated properly! In addition I was informed that they made 1, million primers in that lot. They had no other issues with that lot. Furthermore they never have any issues with their primers! If they do receive complaints , 99% of any complaints they get are all caused by primers not seated deeply enough. The other one percent of the complaints are due to contamination. Basically not their problem all my fault. It made no difference that all three guns functioned flawlessly when I used other primers from different manufacturers.
Now at this time I’d like to add that I’m not new to reloading I’ve been reloading since the 80s and CCI has been my go to primers when they’re available. I’m the first one to admit I’m not perfect! I don’t do this for a living! Over the years, I’ve probably had a few failure to fires with my reloads, especially when I first started reloading. I have never experienced hundreds of rounds failing to fire until now.
I posted this thread because I was curious to see if anyone else experienced a problem with CCI primers. In addition I wanted to let everyone know that there is a potential for a problem. I’m certainly not trying to tell anybody what primers to use or what primers not to use. Everyone can make up their own mind. All I know is I won’t be purchasing any more CCI small pistol primers. Not that that’s even possible at this time, especially in my area. Oh and if anyone’s interested in the batch number from these primers, so that they can check their own stock. I’ll be happy to supply it to them if you send me a PM. I’m not a lawyer but I suspect there might be some legal issue with me posting the batch number of a bunch of primers on an open forum.
Take care and be safe.

[Minerat]

I have not experienced any problems with CCI 500's but most of mine are in the white cartons so they are older runs then the blue boxes. I only use CCI so must be lucky. I have a SW 659, & a beretta nano in 9mm but no problems so far, knock on wood. Not to question your ability, but did you by chance check the seating depth, just in case? I know I have sometimes had my seating stem set too low and will get misfires every so often. Good luck.

[Ozark mike]

I believe cci are the softest primer available. Never had a problem with em

[Idaho45guy]

I run nothing but CCI and most are the SPP 500. Never an issue other than the first few attempts as a newbie reloader and didn't get a few seated deep enough. But those were the large pistol primers and a 10mm.

I just shot up a bunch of recent purchase CCI 500's and had no issues at all.

CCI makes their primers about 50 miles from here.

[winelover]

I use thousands of CCI 500's every year. Been purchasing CCI primers, exclusively, ever since I started reloading in the mid 70's. Never had any issues that weren't gun related. During one of the shortages I purchased Tula's for my plinking ammo. Won't make that mistake again.

Is it possible that your brass is the issue? Maybe try uniforming the pockets to a consistent depth. What tool do you use to seat your primers? I'm of the opinion that the RCBS bench priming tool yields the best results.

CCI primers are known for the hardest cups. Federal, the softest.


Winelover

[762sultan]

The only problem I ever had with CCI were small rifle primers. They were bench rest type primers if I remember correctly and none of them would ignite. I think they may have been contaminated somehow and not a fault of CCI.

[aap2]

No misfires with many thousands of CCI and Winchester primers properly seated and fired in a firearm in good mechanical condition. A friend of mine who was new to reloading was complaining that many of the rounds that he had just loaded had failed to fire...Primers were CCI from my stock and were properly seated and his gun was in good mechanical condition, but at least 1/3 of the rounds would not fire. Turns out he gave the empty brass a spray of WD40 when they came out of the tumbler to prevent them from tarnishing before priming and this killed the primers quite dead.

[GhostHawk]

CCI is my primer of choice because I simply never have had a problem with them.

If they examined 10 rounds attempted and 10 rounds ready to fire and say the primers were ok, not seated deeply enough and or light primer strikes.
I for one would believe them.

I don't neccessarily think that CCI's are the softest. Seems to me some Federals hold that spot, and as a general rule possibly Remington.

I've yet to ever have a CCI primer, installed correctly, fail to fire.

You have not mentioned your priming method at all.

Personally after I citric acid wash my brass I like to run a brush through the primer pockets. As I have seen carbon build up cause primers that do not want to seat all the way. Call me OCD but I like clean pockets.

On the flip side, if CCI had a bad batch of primers where even 1 in 10 failed to go bang it would be all over news wise.
You'd hear screaming and yelling about it for months along with recalls, refunds, etc. It would be plastered everywhere.
So if you do not see that, then you have to assume that CCI is correct and it is a problem with something your doing.

Not trying to pick on ya, just calling it the way I see it.

[rond]

Pull the bullet and powder from one of your rounds and seat the primer again. Put the primed case in your gun and see if it goes bang.

[rdwarrior]

I have been having a problem with CCI LRP in my 30-30. I was working up mouse farts and I had to strike the CCI primers 2-3 times before they would fire. I took the same fired cases and used two different brands of primers in the same rifle and never had a FTF. Think I got a bad batch of primers. People kept telling me the primers were not seated far enough and the first strike was merely seating the primers deeper. Not the case. After the test with the other brands of primers i retried the same batch of CCI primers. All primers were seated and I put them in the same rifle with no powder or projectiles. Again the majority took multiple strikes. After the first FTF I looked at the brass and primers. The primers did not appear to have moved any deeper and the indent on the primer looked the same as the primers that did fire on first strike. Go figure.

[toallmy]

I have had bad bricks of primers twice in my lifetime both times they were CCI- the first was in the mid 80s with SPP's then again in the 2010's with LR Mag primers . Both times I was very disappointed with the way the company handled the problem .
I know how to seat a primer , while I understand mistakes can be made - I'm not the only one that can make them . I still use CCI primers but I won't bulk up on them like I will with other brands .

[Mal Paso]

I believe cci are the softest primer available. Never had a problem with em

CCI were known as the Hardest until Tula came into the market.

Federal are the most consistent for me. Never had an FTF with them.

I had FTF issues with Tula, Winchester, Magtec, and CCI over the years in stock guns with brand new factory mainsprings. The Ruger Redhawk is known for light strikes and I replace the mainspring regularly. I've been all over seating primers and now use the bench mount RCBS. The cups were TOO HARD for my firing pin strike, beginning and end of story.

I feel your pain.

[Slugster]

Is it possible that you have an improper crimp on your loaded rounds? Have you tried the plunk test? Drop a factory round into your barrel and check depth. Drop one of your handloads in the barrel and check depth. Any difference? Do your rounds headspace on the mouth of the case? Could you be over crimping? Since you have tried different lots of reloads and had different results, I would do some careful measuring to see if you had set up your dies incorrectly. Not hacking on you, just interested in this subject.

[poppy42]

Wow lots of responses! A few have asked how I prime my cases. I prime my cases with a RCBS bench prime. Some others have suggested that I try saving the primers deeper. That’s the real funny part. Before I sent the loaded rounds back to cci, I tried to see if I could seat the primers any deeper. I tried using my RCBS bench prime and there was no movement. I then tried a LEE hand primer. I wanted to feel the resistance with my hand. Absolutely no movement! If I had squeezed the Lee hand primer any tighter I would’ve broken the handle off and all the plastic pieces in it. I could not see the primers any deeper! And to answer another question, I always pay Close attention to primer pockets. I inspect, clean, and swage each primer pocket.
Since this whole thing started I’ve put over 1000 rounds through my guns. Not one issue! As far as I’m concerned i’ve already proved that there’s no issue with my firearms. As far as my primer seating depth, If there was an issue with my technique and I wasn’t seating my primers properly, why is everything fine when I use a different brand of primers. If it was a misfire every once in a while out of 1000 rounds I could say maybe I was the problem. We’re talking most of 1000 rounds that don’t go bang! A whole brick of primers! Dose anyone know how hard that would be? Seat 1,000 primers, so badly, that none would fire?
Oh and am I the only one that has a problem with CCI‘s response? “99% of any complaints are caused by improper seating depth. The other 1% is do to contamination. We don’t make mistakes “! Sorry but I don’t know any company that doesn’t make a mistake and has a100% success rate!
I believe these primers had a harder than normal cup! But I have no way of proving that.

[gwpercle]

No problems here with CCI primers , 50 years using them .

Do check your primer seating tool , make sure it seats them fully into the pocket , all the way in until the primer bottoms out . Try another gun , known to reliably ignite primers, If they still don't fire after that ... Then It's the primers !
A bad lot of primers is possible ...anything involving a human can get screwed up !
If CCI doesn't want to look into the problem ... and find out what the problem is ...that's foolish on their part and sends a poor message to us reloaders who can buy other brands primers . Public Relations , Customer satisfaction and quality control should be important to them ...it's important to me and affects my buying decisions .
Gary

[bedbugbilly]

I normally use CCI and have never had an issue with them.

I'll throw this out though . . . . I am not familiar with either of your handguns but it's odd that neither would fire the ammo . . . seems like if there were an issue with one of the handguns, then another one would certainly work . . or the odds say so.

You are using your handholds . . . none will fire . . . you are concentrating on the primers . . but what about the cartridges themselves? Have you checked them in a cartridge gauge to see if they are within spec? Any chance the your die set-up changed in some manner skas to put more taper crimp and thus change headspace so that when chambered, the cartridge is sitting in just enough further to not allow a full firing pin strike?

[poppy42]

I normally use CCI and have never had an issue with them.

I'll throw this out though . . . . I am not familiar with either of your handguns but it's odd that neither would fire the ammo . . . seems like if there were an issue with one of the handguns, then another one would certainly work . . or the odds say so.

You are using your handholds . . . none will fire . . . you are concentrating on the primers . . but what about the cartridges themselves? Have you checked them in a cartridge gauge to see if they are within spec? Any chance the your die set-up changed in some manner skas to put more taper crimp and thus change headspace so that when chambered, the cartridge is sitting in just enough further to not allow a full firing pin strike?

I’ve thousands of rounds with this bullet Lyman 356402. Loaded the same way I always have. It’s not a problem in any of my guns. As far as I’m concerned I’m eliminated all other possibilities other than primers.

[Froogal]

Yes! I've experienced MANY fail to fire incidents with CCI primers. I will never buy anymore.

[rockrat]

I think the small pistol mag primers have a harder/thicker cup. Wonder if in production, a mix-up happened and mag primer cups were used instead or maybe they are mag primers, but put in the wrong package?
Only primers I have had problems with were Mag-tec

[blackthorn]

Have you got a rifle that uses small primers? If so try a few of the "bad batch" in rifle brass. Maybe the factory got some rifle primers in the wrong box?