shot question

[heebs]

I have an oasis lead shot maker. It works great with wheelweight. But when I duplicate wheelweights, I don't get the same results. My formula (recipe) is :
62 lbs of range lead with analysis of 98.3%Pb 1.6%Sb 0.1%Sn
plus 13 lbs of Linotype with analysis of 84.2%Pb 11.6%Sb 4.2%
gives 75 lbs of 95.9% Pb 3.33% Sb .81% Sn. a brinell of 11.9%.

wheelweights tested at 95.7%Pb 3.5%Sb 0.8%Sn. All results by BNE

Nearly exactly the same as wheelweight. Can someone explain why it doesn't act the same as wheelweight. Is it the arsenic? Both are kept between 600-650 degrees. Coolant temperature is kept between 70-110 degrees. Everything is the same. When I watch video of wheelweight versus recipe in slow motion, it appears the recipe bounces down the ramp before hitting coolant, whereas the wheelweight hits the ramp,1 bounce then rolls the rest of the way to the coolant.

[heebs]

As you can see wheelweight is more uniform and round than recipe.

[Nelsonholsters]

I'm casting my own #4 shot and it has the little tabs that's got to be cut between pellets do I know it's not going to group as good s perfectly round shot but I can live with that.
Maybe the out of round it's what's causing your trouble.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

[M-Tecs]

Post #5 covers the why

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...rstand-arsenic

Arsenic affects surface tension for shot. Makes the shot round. Lead Clip on Wheel weights also have arsenic in them. That's why clip on wheel weights make pretty shot. Arsenic is also grain boundary refine when heat treating. It basically works like a catalyst by speeding up the hardening processes. There are other metals that you can use for that catalyst effect such as sulfur and selenium, but arsenic works the best. I like to add a bit of sulfur to my bullet medals that have no arsenic.

[heebs]

Recipe video. https://youtu.be/z5F3wsRhbOo

Wheel weight video. https://youtu.be/aGX_x-XuuZg Play at 25%

What do you think, does the angle of the feed ramp need to be lessened to get shot to roll instead of bounce?

[heebs]

Please straighten me out. If I add sulfur to my “recipe”, the sulfur would act like arsenic and add surface tension to the lead. I would get rounder shot. What is easiest source of sulfur to use? Sulfur powder(brimstone)Amazon? Then would add 1/2ounce to 100 lb batch? Stir and do again?

[garrisonjoe]

Elemental Sulfur is not going to dissolve into lead alloys. (BTW - sulfur is NOT a metal). It will either burn off with sulfur dioxide fumes, or combine to make sulfides with the zinc and copper that might be in your mix - then float to the top as dross.

The "sulfur" commonly used in industry to remove copper from lead is the iron sulfide (powdered iron pyrite) or sodium sulfide flakes. In those, the sulfur is already in anion form and can combine with copper in the metal alloy to form copper sulfide (Cu2S). Sodium sulfide is hazardous for casual uses as it is extremely alkaline (burns skin if exposed) and in moist air, it releases deadly hydrogen sulfide gas.

Sulfur has been used as a calcium removal agent as well. Never heard of sulfur increasing surface tension like Arsenic does.

Using powdered sulfur is a great way to ruin your lungs and eyes if you are not really careful.

Lead makes better, rounder shot with metallic arsenic added. And that is hard to come by.

[heebs]

Ok, next question, copper that is already mixed in lead(babbitt metal), what effects would that have. I know it makes lead harder, but what about for shot making. Does that do anything for surface tension?

[garrisonjoe]

For shot making, the cleaner (less contaminated) the lead alloy usually the better. Lead, antimony (3-6%), and arsenic (0.05-0.25%) is the right mix. Copper would not be something I'd want to have to work around.

I'd guess that range lead is going to be the source of enough contaminates (Zn, Ca, Al, Cu, etc) to cause the different shot dropping behavior you are seeing. I'd use soft lead and alloy up the antimony with linotype, then find a high-Arsenic content alloy to get to the right As level.

[heebs]

Alright that answers my questions. Thanks

[dsh1106]

I've had decent results with as low as 40% COWW and range lead.
So when the results your currently getting with your mix, you might try a 20% COWW and reduce your range lead by 20%.

Scott

[heebs]

Thanks for the suggestion. I was thinking something similar to that. we will see what happens.

[heebs]

Got around to fixing my recipe. Worked great! I am at 0.06% of arsenic. Fixed up the roundness problem. The arsenic is providing enough surface tension to keep the shot round when it hits the coolant. Thanks for all the suggestions!Attachment 266248

[dsh1106]

Got around to fixing my recipe. Worked great! I am at 0.06% of arsenic. Fixed up the roundness problem. The arsenic is providing enough surface tension to keep the shot round when it hits the coolant. Thanks for all the suggestions!Attachment 266248

So what did you end up using? 20% - 30% COWW with your range lead and lino?

Scott

[jsizemore]

Yeah, what and how did you get the arsenic in the alloy? I'd have probably cut your home brew alloy with 25-50% COWW alloy. Looks like from your analysis it was 8-10%?

[too many things]

one thing is he said range scrap
many casters used wheel weights only, it does work better
so he would have got the arsenic from those . dropped shot for long time, range lead did do ok for 6-7 but not for 8-9
BIG thing is 2 zinc in a 20lb will mess up a shot dripper.
By the color of shot he was dropping in a water base
good round shot is only good in HYD fluid. and you dont need to coat. the shot will stay silver for life and run fine
done this for 20yrs, have tried every thing , HYD is the only one that works every time

[heebs]

Here is the final recipe. 42 lbs of range lead, 8 lbs Linotype, 15 lbs WW. gives me 65 lbs. that's what I can comfortably get in my mixing pot. Using the lead alloy calculator I input what my range lead assay was. My Linotype and WW assays came in right where it should be on the calculator. I played around with the numbers to get WW equivalent. Tried it and voila, much better shot. yes I drop in fabric softener. 23% WW in the mix.

[centershot]

one thing is he said range scrap
many casters used wheel weights only, it does work better
so he would have got the arsenic from those . dropped shot for long time, range lead did do ok for 6-7 but not for 8-9
BIG thing is 2 zinc in a 20lb will mess up a shot dripper.
By the color of shot he was dropping in a water base
good round shot is only good in HYD fluid. and you dont need to coat. the shot will stay silver for life and run fine
done this for 20yrs, have tried every thing , HYD is the only one that works every time

So you're saying that hydraulic fluid gives better results than the more common fabric softener/water mix? What type of fluid are you using? ATF?

[jsizemore]

I bet he's using tractor hydraulic fluid. More cheaper.