Casting for 45 long colt

[Larry Gibson]

I've a couple Uberti SAs [Evil Roy w/4 3/4" barrel and an Artillery w/5 1/2" barrel] and shot a lot of 454190s, 454490s and 45-255-KTs through them. Also have a Uberti 1873 lever action and a Contender barrel in 45 Colt. Over the last 10+ years I've become more partial to shooting lighter weight bullets. I used the Lee 452-200-RF but lately have been using the Lee 452-230-TC, both with excellent accuracy. I load them over Bullseye or 700X for 950 & 900 fps out of the SAs and 1150 & 1050 fps out of the Uberti carbine, very comfortable and accurate loads. I'm a traditional size and lube guy.

[slk]

So back in the day when the SAA first came out (like the days of the old west) what was the weight of the bullet? I am assuming it was 255gn..

Steve

[Drm50]

I’ve personally wore out 357 and 44 Lee Molds years ago. I don’t buy them anymore. I have Lyman Ideal molds that are over 100yrs old. Most likely several owners and thousands of bullets and casting good as new. RCBS, SAACO, H&G, ect . My suggestion is to look in classifieds and pick up good quality mold at good price. I’ve been in this game my whole life and found that top quality molds and tools are a better investment in the long run.

[Dusty Bannister]

So back in the day when the SAA first came out (like the days of the old west) what was the weight of the bullet? I am assuming it was 255gn..

Steve

One Google search source says:
What bullet does a Colt 45 fire?
The .45 Colt-or .45 (Long) Colt as it is irritatingly known-was originally loaded with 40 grains of FFg black powder, under a 255-grain lead bullet, at a muzzle velocity of just over 875 fps, as has been shown by testing original loads over a modern chronograph. This made for a very powerful combination, and for the stuff of legend.

[Larry Gibson]

One Google search source says:
What bullet does a Colt 45 fire?
The .45 Colt-or .45 (Long) Colt as it is irritatingly known-was originally loaded with 40 grains of FFg black powder, under a 255-grain lead bullet, at a muzzle velocity of just over 875 fps, as has been shown by testing original loads over a modern chronograph. This made for a very powerful combination, and for the stuff of legend.

However, for use in Army SAAs the arsenals loaded the 45 Gvmt cartridge with a 230 gr bullet over 28 or 29 gr of BP so the cartridge could be used in both the Schofield and the Colt SAAs. The original 45 Scofield cartridge has to large a rim so only 3 cartridges could be loaded in the SAAs. Because of the shorter 45 Gvmt cartridge the 45 Colt was erroneously given the moniker "45 Long Colt". There never was a "45 Short Colt" .

It was found the 45 Gvmt earned a reputation as being more "accurate"...more than likely because it was easier to shoot (much less recoil) and was better regulated to the fixed sights of the SAA.

[Ozark mike]

I thought the first colt cartridge was kinda like a collar button maybe im jus loosing it very possible

[c0wb0y84]

However, for use in Army SAAs the arsenals loaded the 45 Gvmt cartridge with a 230 gr bullet over 28 or 29 gr of BP so the cartridge could be used in both the Schofield and the Colt SAAs. The original 45 Scofield cartridge has to large a rim so only 3 cartridges could be loaded in the SAAs. Because of the shorter 45 Gvmt cartridge the 45 Colt was erroneously given the moniker "45 Long Colt". There never was a "45 Short Colt" .

I find it humorous when people get worked up about calling a 45 colt a “long colt”. (I’m not referring to Larry he just reminded me of some that I’ve talked to that get worked up about it)

It was not a name given in error but to differentiate between two cartridges and reduce confusion. There were two lengths of rounds that would fit in the 45 colt, the shorter round being the schofield that fit in both pistols and then the long one was the colt thus the long colt.

This was not the first, nor will it be the last time the military calls things by different names to suit their purposes. But it is not done in error.

[Larry Gibson]

"There were two lengths of rounds that would fit in the 45 colt, the shorter round being the schofield that fit in both pistols and then the long one was the colt thus the long colt."

I know that's been said and printed over and over until it has become the "truth" so to speak. The original 45 Schofield cases had rims that were too large to fit in the Colt SAAs. The original 45 Colt rims were .483 and the 45 Schofield rims were .514+. Thus sometimes only 3 Schofield cartridges could be put in the Colt SAA at a time and sometimes not if the arsenal case with folded rim was too big. Also on many Colt SAAs of the time the ratchet diameter at the rear of the cylinder was also too large to allow the 45 Schofield cartridges to seat fully. The Army was using both Scofield S&W revolvers and Colt SAA revolvers at the same time. Many units had both kinds of revolvers, especially cavalry units, so there was a supply problem. The arsenals (Frankford I believe) in 1873/74 began producing the 45 Gvmt cartridge. The manual of the day [Description and Rules of Management of the Springfield Rifle, Carbine and Army revolvers, 1874] describes the cartridge and load. It was an inside "centre" primed (Benet' primer) case the length of the Scofield case but with the folded rims smaller in diameter to fit 6 cartridges in the Colt SAA cylinder. It contained 28 gr of BP under a 230 gr bullet.

Also, Colt and perhaps Springfield Armory decreased the diameter of the ratchet on the rear of Colt cylinders and dished them out so the 45 Schofield cartridges could easily chamber. Commercial 45 Colt cases today have rime of .505 +/- and the commercial Starline 45 Schofield case rims run right around .514 +/-. Those Starline cases fit into both 45 Colt cylinders of my Uberti clones of the Colt SA. However, in order to pressure test the 45 Schofield loads in the recessed chamber of my Contender 45 Colt barrel I had to reduce the rim diameter of the 45 Schofield cases to .505.

I also find it humorous when the 45 Colt is referred to as the "Long Colt"......

[c0wb0y84]

All the more reason to be more descriptive in differentiating them.

What’s even funnier is that it doesn’t really matter what people call them, everyone knows what your talking about either way.

Back to topic- I like the lee mold and for the price of a higher quality mold you can wear out 3-4 of the lees. I also have a Lyman 454424 that I recently got and is showing some promise.

I was given some Boolits cast by an mp mold that if I’d really like to have. It’s around 255 with a cup and 263ish flat nose. For now though I’ll have to make do with what I have. 8gr of win 231 under everything.

[slk]

Is there anything special you have to do with the Lee molds before poring lead? On the lyman ones I do have, I have always smoked them up pretty good. I have heard you can warp the Lee molds if not careful, but if you are just pouring lead into them I do not see how one could be damaged.

Steve

[Tripplebeards]

When I research 45 cal bullets for my new Vaquero it seemed that the original old west cowboy load was 255 grains. At the time every other review said it was more accurate than the lighter versions. I’d like to try Lee 200 grainers through it some day. I do smoke my Lee molds before I cast them. Never wrecked one yet. If I did they’re pretty cheap... Id just buy another one anyways. I tried Rockford arsenal mold release a couple of times. It works really good but it puts little dimples all over the boolits which don’t make them look nice so I stopped using the release spray. I’m pretty hard on my molds and haven’t warped one yet.

[Ozark mike]

I dont smoke mine i just dip a corner in the lead until the lead that stuck at first melts then i know its up to temp

[c0wb0y84]

Is there anything special you have to do with the Lee molds before poring lead? On the lyman ones I do have, I have always smoked them up pretty good. I have heard you can warp the Lee molds if not careful, but if you are just pouring lead into them I do not see how one could be damaged.

Steve

Open them and check for burrs. If present carefully remove the burrs with a knife or razor blade (carefully!). I then check the sprue plate and usually use some very fine sand paper to smooth up the surface that contacts the aluminum. Other than that I lube and use as any other mold with good results. Some people go to greater lengths but that’s all I do.

[Mk42gunner]

I have the Lyman 452424 that works well in both a Ruger Vaquero and my 1894CB Marlin, haven't tried it in the 1892 Rossi yet. I also have the aforementioned 454190, but it is a single cavity so I haven't really tried it out.

If I were starting now, I think I would look very hard at one of the ~250 RNFP molds, the Lee comes to mind as being the least expensive.

Robert

[Larry Gibson]

I dont smoke mine i just dip a corner in the lead until the lead that stuck at first melts then i know its up to temp

^^^^^^^
What I do after deburring and lubing the alignment pins and sprue plate. I've been using Lee moulds since '73/'74(?) and still have yet to ruin one. Figured out long ago that beating on the sprue plate does an aluminum mould no good so I use a heavy leather glove and twist the sprue plate open by hand. Of course that's not needed with the 6 cavities. Also have not warped any mould using the above method.

I do not smoke the cavities. it is not necessary.

[Ozark mike]

If the mold gets to hot it just takes longer for the sprue to solidify. If i get to that point i jus cool it a touch with the water i drop my boolits in then off i go no need to wack anything like larry said should be able to slide the sprue plate with little force to cut the sprue if the cutter is sharp

[Tripplebeards]

I casted up a huge pile of lee 300 grain FN .452’s in WQCOWW, sized to .452, PC’d, and GC’d. I casted them up for my 450BM and found out they won’t feed. I will eventually resize them to .451” and try them through my new vaquero. Don’t know what else to do with them and I’m guessing 300 grainers are probably not going to Stabilize very well out of my pistol at slower velocities.

[Ozark mike]

For a bh 452 should be fine how thick is your pc job

[Tripplebeards]

One coat tumbled.

[Ozark mike]

Got a diameter after powdercoating. Never powdercoated bullets just car and motorcycle parts i couldn't tell ya what the thickness was if ya was to beat me with it