Casting for 45 long colt

[elmacgyver0]

I have never had to do anything to a Lee mold.
I do smoke the cavities though and lube the rub points with a little beeswax.
I find them easier to cast with than my Lyman molds.
I never have ruined one yet.

[farmbif]

I wouldn't trade my mp 454640 for anything

[Tripplebeards]

Got a diameter after powdercoating. Never powdercoated bullets just car and motorcycle parts i couldn't tell ya what the thickness was if ya was to beat me with it

I size after coating... .452 and I will resize to .451. It's not the size that's in question....its the question if a heavy 300 grain bullet will stabilize at lower velocities. Guess I'll have to try it so I can answer my own question.

[slk]

With the Lee MOLD DC 452-255-RF does anyone have any suggestions as to what top punch to use with the Lyman sizer system. I have a .452 sizing die that I think I will be ok using, but do not have a top punch to match the bullet from the lee mold.

Steve

[Onty]

45 Colt, 45 Long Colt, 45 Short Colt:

The Long & the Short of the .45 Colt, By: Jim Taylor

The debate over whether there is a .45 "Long" Colt cartridge is an on-going one that has been active for probably 75 years. Elmer Keith alluded to the arguments many years ago when he wrote "...Some newcomers to the game claim there is no such animal, but if they had shot the short variety that Remington turned out in such profusion before, during and after World War I they would see there was some basis in referring to the .45 Colt as the .45 Long..." (Elmer Keith, Sixguns, page 285)



These are not S&W or Schofield cartridges. The rim diameter is the same as the long .45 Colts, which is smaller than the Schofield rim diameter. These are true .45 Short Colts. The cartridge is listed in Cartridges of the World on page 306 as ".45 Colt - .45 Colt Government".

Whole article http://www.lasc.us/TaylorLongShort45Colt.htm

[joatmon]

With the Lee MOLD DC 452-255-RF does anyone have any suggestions as to what top punch to use with the Lyman sizer system. I have a .452 sizing die that I think I will be ok using, but do not have a top punch to match the bullet from the lee mold.

Steve

I just use a flat top punch in my Lyman, made it out of a bolt.

Aaron

[slk]

I just use a flat top punch in my Lyman, made it out of a bolt.

Aaron

So when you make it are you using the head of the bolt to push the bullet? Is the set screw good enough to keep the thread part of the bolt from moving or do you use a nut also so it can't move.

Steve

[Larry Gibson]

45 Colt, 45 Long Colt, 45 Short Colt:

The Long & the Short of the .45 Colt, By: Jim Taylor

The debate over whether there is a .45 "Long" Colt cartridge is an on-going one that has been active for probably 75 years. Elmer Keith alluded to the arguments many years ago when he wrote "...Some newcomers to the game claim there is no such animal, but if they had shot the short variety that Remington turned out in such profusion before, during and after World War I they would see there was some basis in referring to the .45 Colt as the .45 Long..." (Elmer Keith, Sixguns, page 285)



These are not S&W or Schofield cartridges. The rim diameter is the same as the long .45 Colts, which is smaller than the Schofield rim diameter. These are true .45 Short Colts. The cartridge is listed in Cartridges of the World on page 306 as ".45 Colt - .45 Colt Government".

Whole article http://www.lasc.us/TaylorLongShort45Colt.htm

There are several cartridges actually named "short' and "long"; the 32 Colts and the 41 Colts. S&W differentiated the 32 S&WL (Long) from the 32 S&W yet never called the 32 S&W a 32 S&WS ("Short"). The 45 Government is the same basic cartridge as the 45 S&W (Schofield) except it has the smaller rim diameter of the 45 Colt so it would fit in original 45 Colt SAAs. It never was named a 45 "Short Colt" but was called the 45 Government as it was developed and named by the arsenals (Frankford if I recall correctly?)to be used in both the 45 S&W Schofield revolver and the Colt SAA revolvers. It is described in the 1874 manual. Some cartridge manufacturers called it 45 Colt Government to differentiate it from the 45 S&W cartridge meaning it could be used in Colt SAAs.

Again, the name "45 Long Colt" is a misnomer as it is, correctly, the "45 Colt" cartridge. Never was a "true" 45 Short Colt as Mr. Taylor surmises to justify or rationalize the use of "45 Long Colt" Calling the 45 Colt a "Long Colt" is no more correct than calling the 357 Magnum a "Long 38 SPL". There are many colloquial names of things used which may be consider okay I guess. Calling bullets "boolets" or "heads" is acceptable on this and other forums. However, simply making up a name, even if it becomes common in usage, still does not make it correct.

BTW; I found no such reference on page 306 or any other page in my edition of "Cartridges Of The World". Could be Mr. Taylor is referencing a different edition?

[Gunslinger1911]

I haven't found a 45 boolet that dosn't work in the 45 Colt as long as it fits the cyl throat / bore.
I like the MiHec 45-225. Drops a 230g HP reminiscent of the Speer "flying ashtray" for my ACP carry load and a 250g solid that's a flat round nose that works great in SAA and 45 Colt levers.
Nothing wrong with a Lee mould - you MAY have to fiddle with it a bit (as in most Lee stuff - It's low cost for a reason - I call it "90 % engineered". Not knocking Lee - all but 2 of my 25+ dies are Lee, multiple powder measures, a turret press, etc. I don't mind "fiddleing" .
I use 231 or TrailBoss - can't remember the charge at the moment - but standard loads.
4 3/4" Uberti SAA, Uberti Henry, Win Trapper, S&W 25; all shoot well.
Prob my fav cartridge !

[fatelk]

I've become more accepting of the misnomer "Long Colt" in recent years. I was talking to a friend once a while back, and mentioned that I'd recently started loading .45 Colt ammo. He looked at me quizzically and asked, "45 auto or Long Colt?"

I have them sized at .451” so I push them through my forcing cones with my finger using very little effort.

I'm a little confused, forcing cone or cylinder throat? I don't think it's a good thing to be able to push a bullet through the forcing cone with finger pressure...

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Guys,

This quote is from the 13th Edition of C.O.W.

".45 Colt Government

Historical Notes:
This was something of a bastardized cartridge, combining the length
of the S&W Schofield revolver round with the rim of the Colt SAA
round. Army ordnance described at least one version of this
cartridge officially as Revolver Ball Cartridge, Caliber .45. The
Remington-UMC version was labeled (on the box and case heads)
as .45 Colt. The evident military incentive for such a loading seems
obvious: With both S&W and Colt .45-caliber revolvers (similar,
but differently chambered) in use, supplying the correct ammunition
to far-flung outposts must have been something of a logistical
nightmare. One has to wonder how often troopers found themselves
in possession of ammunition that would not work in the gun they had
been issued. The .45 Colt ammunition is longer than the Schofield
cylinder; chambering Schofield ammunition in the Colt leaves
precious little room for rim clearance. It seems likely that some
early .45 Colt SAAs would not have chambered some Schofield
ammunition, even when the gun was clean. Conversely, the .45 Colt
Government, combining the shorter case and smaller rim, worked
(after a fashion) in either gun. Ballistically, it differed little from the
standard .45 Colt ordnance loading, which was significantly lighter
than the original commercial loading. Available information
suggests that this cartridge was available between the late 1870s and
the 1930s.

General Comments:
When the chips are down, having any ammunition that will fit and
work in the gun at hand is much better than throwing rocks.
However, the Schofield does not function as dependably using the
smaller-rimmed .45 Colt Government cases; incautious manipulation
or a somewhat worn gun can result in the extractor slipping past the
rim of one or more partially extracted cases. The gun cannot, then,
be closed. Worse, if the cylinder is the slightest bit dirty
(blackpowder, remember), removing the offending case can require
a dowel, a hammer, and at least three hands!"

Sounds like something the government would have done, AntiqueSledMan.

[William Yanda]

I bought a lee 255 grain mold for my new vaquero. I load them long (almost touching my forcing cones) with 5.2 grains of trail boss. I can hit shotgun shells with every trigger pull at 25 yards when I have the correct finger placement on my trigger. I have them sized at .451” so I push them through my forcing cones with my finger using very little effort. At 15 yards I can stack them on top of each other with this load. I did nothing to my mold...just poured and PCd. Never even sorted by weight since I knew I wasn’t planning on shooting long range with them.

Are those sarcastic boolits? What powder did you use?

[cwlongshot]

It dosent matter IN THE LEAST. WE ALL know what we are speaking about when we hear 45 Colt OR 45 LONG COLT!!!

Either way YOU CALL IT its one of my favorites!!! I refer to it either /both ways at different times. IMHO neither is wrong as good arguments can be had on both sides.

Its NOTHING like calling a firearm magazine a "clip". Thats flat incorrect.

I load about a doz different bullets into my 45 Colts thru the years! Lately a Accurate FWC 250g mold is my "precious". But the 454424 will always get high marks from me.

Good luck and have FUN!!

CW

[Larry Gibson]

Hello Guys,

This quote is from the 13th Edition of C.O.W.

".45 Colt Government

Historical Notes:
This was something of a bastardized cartridge, combining the length
of the S&W Schofield revolver round with the rim of the Colt SAA
round. Army ordnance described at least one version of this
cartridge officially as Revolver Ball Cartridge, Caliber .45. The
Remington-UMC version was labeled (on the box and case heads)
as .45 Colt. The evident military incentive for such a loading seems
obvious: With both S&W and Colt .45-caliber revolvers (similar,
but differently chambered) in use, supplying the correct ammunition
to far-flung outposts must have been something of a logistical
nightmare. One has to wonder how often troopers found themselves
in possession of ammunition that would not work in the gun they had
been issued. The .45 Colt ammunition is longer than the Schofield
cylinder; chambering Schofield ammunition in the Colt leaves
precious little room for rim clearance. It seems likely that some
early .45 Colt SAAs would not have chambered some Schofield
ammunition, even when the gun was clean. Conversely, the .45 Colt
Government, combining the shorter case and smaller rim, worked
(after a fashion) in either gun. Ballistically, it differed little from the
standard .45 Colt ordnance loading, which was significantly lighter
than the original commercial loading. Available information
suggests that this cartridge was available between the late 1870s and
the 1930s.

General Comments:
When the chips are down, having any ammunition that will fit and
work in the gun at hand is much better than throwing rocks.
However, the Schofield does not function as dependably using the
smaller-rimmed .45 Colt Government cases; incautious manipulation
or a somewhat worn gun can result in the extractor slipping past the
rim of one or more partially extracted cases. The gun cannot, then,
be closed. Worse, if the cylinder is the slightest bit dirty
(blackpowder, remember), removing the offending case can require
a dowel, a hammer, and at least three hands!"

Sounds like something the government would have done, AntiqueSledMan.

The "solution" was to decrease the ratchet diameter on the Colt SAA cylinders so the larger rim of the 45 S&W Schofield cartridge would "fit" and thus 6 cartridges could be chambered. That led to the discontinuance of the 45 Gvmt cartridge. It also allowed a larger diameter thicker rim on drawn/turned rims instead of folded rims of the 45 Gvmt cartridge that was needed for positive extraction in the Colt new Service revolvers issued for the Philippine insurrection. The Colt New Service suffered the same extraction problems as the S&W Scofield revolvers did with the smaller diameter thinner rimmed original 45 Colt case.

Such were the some of the problems, both with government and civilian manufacture, encountered in the early years of cartridge case development.

[Tripplebeards]

Are those sarcastic boolits? What powder did you use?

Smoke's traffic purple...my dad wanted purple boolits for it at the time. In the post above I meant I load them to just before the throat tapers in my cylinder...not my forcing cone.

[fcvan]

Call me an odd-ball but I really like shooting round ball from my OM Vaquero and a 20" single shot carbine. Light load of Bullseye reaches 900 fps from the carbine, I don't recall the pistol velocity. Quiet, hard hitting, and soft round balls just mash flat on impact. I have loaded some rather warm loads just because and the OM Vaquero is on the SBH frame. I don't do a steady diet of warm loads because I'm just killing tin cans.

My dad has an old Colt from 1899 so it only gets BP rounds. I never bring my loads to the range when Dad is of a mind to shoot his colt even though my loads are generally BP pressure anyway. No need to run the risk.

I have a bunch of 45 caliber molds as I also shoot 45 ACP, all Lee molds including one single cavity 200 gr RNHP mold made in the mid 1970s. Their HP molds have long been discontinued and I have 2. The HP mold gets powder coated but it used to get plain based gas checks for the warm carbine loads. Now, I just as soon shoot the light loaded round balls because the are just fun!

[Walks]

I must have been at least in H.S. Before I heard the term "Long Colt". My Dad had a S&W #3 Schofield revolver, We referred to the cut down .45Colt cases we made for that revolver as .45Schofield cases, had to turn the revolver upside down to open it. So the small rims didn't slide under the extractor.

.45Colt was just ".45Colt"

I bought a Uberti #3 in .45Colt a couple of years after they came out. Bought 500 new starline .45 schofield cases.
loaded them with a variety of 225-230gr bullets. Seem to have settled on the Lee #452-230-TC over 4.8grs of TiteGroup. Shoots to POI at 50ft in my New Vaquero. And the Lyman #452374 RN & Saeco #453 WC.
That Lee #452-255-RF is a good bullet for .45Colt, especially in a rifle.
But so is the Lyman #454190
And the Lyman #454424, #452454 & #452423 are great for punching clean holes in paper.
RCBS # 45-270-SAA over Max Charge of Unique, just the thing to ride on your hip when walking off the pavement.

[ole_270]

I use the Lee 255rf over 8 gr Universal. I've pretty much quit buying the double cavity Lees, 6 cavity Lee molds have so far worked much better.

[slk]

One other question. Is straight wheel weights ok for 45 colt, or do they need to be harder?

Steve

[c0wb0y84]

Stick on or clip on? Are you lubing or powder coating? Although really the answer is that your gun will have to tell you that.

I've used straight clip on and it worked in one gun and leaded another. I powder coat now.