Simple reality.
Been loading 2 different 45acp cast bullets for a while now and have been using exclusively R*P brass on these loading. Well after all this time I finally used up all the hundreds of cleaned R*P brass I had. I just had to try a different brass once again and GGggrrrr. No Go! Stuff may work in the Springfield but it will just not work in my Tanfoglio Witness.
So I guess I will be spending the day washing, sorting, drying and tumbling 45acp brass.
45 acp brass doesn't have to be that clean to reload . Wipe off any outside dirt when inspecting for damage then reload the once fired cases . I do it a lot ...no harm .
You don't have to wash and wax your car every time you drive it .
Gary
Certified Cajun
Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
" Let's Go Brandon !"
This x2.Originally Posted by gwpercle
If you need to clean off dirt you can rinse in warm water, agitate, shake out any water, and then let them sit in the sun for a little while to dry. A hair dryer will reduce drying time to minutes. Cleaning 100 cases can take under 10 minutes and cost nothing unless you need to go buy a hair dryer or heat gun.
The issue is not dirty cases.
The issue is that the R*P case has the thinnest walls. Winchester nor Federal will chamber or pluck test in my Witness.
Just today I did try a few Winchester cases and not one would plunk in the Witness barrel. W/O touching a thing on the press and just changing back to R*P brass I loaded three and all three dropped right in and right out!
I right now have 3/4 of a 5gal. bucket of 45acp brass that has been just sitting and collecting more. So it's time to wash some just to recover the R*P brass that is in there.
They should all chamber easily after being resized. However, it doesn't hurt anything to sort them.
They do chamber just fine while empty. Seat a .452" diameter cast bullet and they will not seat while the R*P Cases have no issues with the .452" boolit.
So I guess you will be spending the day washing , sorting , drying and tumbling 45 acp brass ...
Nice day for doing it .
Gary
Certified Cajun
Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
" Let's Go Brandon !"
It is actually. Nice and cool in the reloading room. was going to start reloading more of the 200gr RNFP I just cast and then found I only have 30 prepped R*P cases left. Yet I have about 1k Winchester and 1k Fed all clean sorted and ready to load.
I haven't given much thought to sizing down to .451" because the .452 shoots so well and not a bit of leading. Just finished shooting 200 of these thru this gun and the barrel looks like it wasn't even shot after just running a wet double patch thru it. Also that patch came out almost still white.
I'd get that gun throated.
I don't sort pistol brass. I shoot 45 ACP in over a dozen different guns. My reloads work in everyone of them and I don't have to use the crutch of a Lee Carbide FCD to make them work.
NRA Benefactor.
You may but I won't. Been through that discussion way too many times. But thanks for the suggestion.
Where did the Lee FCD comment come from?
I have my own reason for sorting brass and have expend it before so there is no reason to do it again. It has nothing to do with accuracy.
Burnt Fingers has a special dislike for the Lee FCD and likes to throw that comment out whenever. Just ignore it.
That Witness must have an extremely tight chamber. The only solutions I know of to the issue you are having is to use a slightly smaller diameter boolit in that pistol(.451 maybe) or to throat the barrel which I understand you do not want to do. That is fine but it does limit your options somewhat.
You might want to try sizing to .451 and see if you get any leading in your pistols. Many guns will work just fine at .451.
Depending on your alloy, the boolit will bump up that thousandth and seal the bore.
I have a Springfield XDm that also has a tight chamber, but not as tight as yours appears to be. Mine accepts mixed brass with .452 sized boolits with no issues. It won't take anything larger though with some of the cases with thicker walls.
Might be a issue with the crimp if a empty case drops in OK, but not when its loaded.
I've never had a problem like yours, but I do put a firm taper crimp on .45ACP.
In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
In life: We are given tests, and learn lessons.
OK People. Enough of this idle chit-chat.
This ain't your Grandma's sewing circle.
EVERYONE!
Back to your oars. The Captain wants to waterski.
Tazman I do believe you were also involved in the original conversation with this gun when I first started loading for it. Through much trial and error I have found what will work in this gun W/O having to send it out for a perceived "Repair". I would rather leave this gun all original and work around it like so many do with new guns that they find do not like certain bullet profiles. Many shoot what works and give up on what doesn't. Other send them out and that is a fine solution. For this gun it's just one I refuse to use. That said I am also not asking anyone to have to deal with this gun.
So everyone knows this gun is 28 years old and I am not going to alter it.
Ed there is no issue with the crimp.
I guess I don't understand what "throating" is.
If the shells won't chamber I would think it is because of an excessively tight chamber.
On the other hand if they chamber but won't go all the way in and get stuck in the lands it would be an issue bullet seating or it would happen with all brands of brass.
Perhaps I am just showing my ignorance here, if so please enlighten me.
Throating usually does two things. It extends and, perhaps, enlarges the throat so it will accept a particular sized boolit often changing the angle of the rifling that is presented to the front of the boolit for easier entry into the barrel. In this case .452. The other thing it can do is to slightly enlarge the chamber so the larger casing(larger diameter boolit=larger diameter finished cartridge) can freely enter the chamber and reach battery.
Often, military firearms have slightly "sloppy" chamber dimensions so a problem(dirty/dented) cartridge will still function and not disable a firearm. My Beretta M9 barrels are like this. They will feed cartridges that are several thousandths oversize without issue.
kmw1954---I understand you don't want to mess with the gun's mechanics. I have a couple I won't touch like that as well.
I want you to at least consider a slightly smaller diameter boolit, preferably with an alloy in the 8-14 BHN range and see if that will work in the off brand casings. That MAY fix the issue without ever needing to "adjust" the weapon.
I am assuming the Witness will chamber standard FMJ hardball loaded in those off brand casings?
Tazman you are absolutely correct. This gun will run all fresh factory loaded ammunition with jacketed bullets. It's when they get just the slightest bit oversized or out of round that I have trouble. So once again my solution to the problem was to stay with Remington Peters brass as I don't need to do anything fancy to load with it.
The lead I am using is an alloy of mostly range scrap which as tested pretty soft when made into ingots around the 8-9 BHN and then I am adding some print type into it that is bringing it up to 10-11 range. I added the type because I was getting poor fill-out w/o it.
So with these two cast bullet loads and this R*P brass after working with it I have gotten it to 100% function and very accurate so once again I think I'll just clean the brass and sort out the stuff I need.
Amazed at how this turned into a major discussion on everything but the wall thickness of the brass and just what a simple influence like that can have!
My bet would be the 452 bullet is expanding the neck just enough bigger to cause this issue. measure some loaded rounds and see what the difference is. If everything is loaded the same same bullet same crimp same oal I doubt throating will help. It might take a light polishing of the chamber itself to gain the clearance for the thicker cases.
with the tight chamber it also probably a very good shooter.
One route would be to by a decimal reamer and ream the thick cases slightly deeper than the bullet seats in. Measure the RP cases in you sizer die and buy a reamer that dia. ream the cases in the die with this reamer. ( Lee dies are good here with the large dia stem).
So what is it that prevents the Win brass from chambering in the Tanfoglio? How are you going to cure the problem if you can't identify the problem?
Regardless of the wall thickness of the case, if your dies are properly adjusted the outside dimensions of the loaded round should be the same. So, again, what, exactly is causing the problem? What part of the loaded round is preventing it from chambering?
Again, what, exactly is it that prevents the round from chambering? I ***-U-ME the empty case has been sized but not expanded to accept the bullet, so something in the expand/seat/crimp operations is the culprit? If it really is an issue with brass thickness (which I really doubt) then a bulge at the base of the seated bullet should be evident and easily verifiable with some Prussion Blue or something similar (sharpie) on the loaded round.
Curious to see how you resolve this issue.
Good luck
Jerry
Buzzard's luck!! Can't kill nothin', nothin'll die!!
Yes regardless of the wall thickness the cases should be the same size and are until the bullet is seated! The oversize bullet is not swaging down when seated and is ever so slightly expanding the case around the bullet.
I do not have a micrometer and only use a Mitutoyo Dial caliber. the size difference is so small I cannot read it but it is there.
The solution was easy just use the right brass and not fight it or over think it.
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