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Thread: Newbie looking to start loading 20 guage defense loads...

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold MrMarsHill's Avatar
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    Newbie looking to start loading 20 guage defense loads...

    Hi all! I've been doing a lot of reading here but finally decided to just post my own question. A little background, I love my 20 guage shotgun for defense. Love it. My 9 year old daughter or anybody can get off quick, accurate shots with them, they throw a lot of lead, I have always been partial to the 20 guage. I can get 4 shots on target in basically the same amount as 2 shots with a 12 guage. I just have always preferred it. Either way, there arent many load choices for defense out there in 20 guage. Any 20 guage buckshot is sold out now it seems, and slugs are getting scarce( but I have a stockpile of slugs). I'm looking to get into loading my own 20 guage defensive buckshot rounds. I know it takes a lot of research and information, I dont plan to be making my own "recipes" or anything ... just basic "by the book" loading. What do I need to get started with that on just 20 guage shells? I see $60, 20 guage reloading Kits with what I imagine is most everything besides the consumables(powder, wads, primers, lead etc.) Are these kits all I would need to load basic 20 guage buckshot? Im sure the budget kits arent top notch, but do they get the job done? Anybody have a link or suggestion on a kit etc with all I would need (as far as equipment) to get started? I know I will need to buy the powder and shot, was etc for the shells I plan to make, not really asking about that yet. I hate to say it, but I can only see ammunition getting harder to come by in the future personally. It would feel great to be able to load my own while the materials are readily available. I appreciate any advice on a good BEGINNER set up(just the basics, exactly what I NEED to load the 20 guage shells and fire them safely) or any advice regarding my post for that matter. I am on a budget as most of us are, and dont plan on loading other calibers, or HUGE amounts of shells. I could easily keep myself stocked loading 1 shell at a time by hand. I thank you all in advance for any replies! Stay safe everybody!
    Jim Brown
    Bonez Customs and Collectables

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    Hogtamer's Avatar
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    #3 buckshot is the go-to for 20 ga. Don't know if there's a mold available though. #1 buck will work too.
    Last edited by Hogtamer; 08-07-2020 at 09:27 AM.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
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  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I agree that #3 was the biggest buck I could find for my 20, and like you I am a long time 20 lover.

    I suspect it would be a lot easier to find a #4 buck mold.
    And you most likely want one with some filler. They sell special low weight plastic fillers that help the load maintain its shape through the barrel. Prevent jamming and deformation of pellets and the nasty stuff it does to patterns.

    The good ol boys I learned from used corn meal in their buckshot. Low weight, low cost, bio degradable, eatable by something out there in the wild.

    But for inside the house defensive work I don't think you can improve much on good ol bird-shot.
    At inside the house ranges it will tear big bloody holes in whatever it hits.

    Plus it has the advantage that it is most likely not going to penitrate all the way through more than 1 wall if that.
    So a stray round is not likely to kill or injure a loved one in the house.

    I keep my 12 ga loaded with 5 trap loads of 7.5's, one in the chamber, but the action half open. So it can't possibly fire if the wife tips it over cleaning.

    I also keep an ammo holder on the buttstock with #1 buckshot and slugs. But I don't really consider those for inside the house work.

    And once they bust out the door and run, they are no longer a threat, thus no longer a valid target. Let em go.
    I truly believe we need to get back to basics.

    Get right with the Lord.
    Get back to the land.
    Get back to thinking like our forefathers thought.


    May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make His face to shine upon you and be gracious unto you
    and give you His peace. Let all of the earth – all of His creation – worship and praise His name! Make His
    praise glorious!

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    For low volume buckshot and slugs, the simplest thing by far is to get a roll crimper, since you'll be assembling everything by hand anyway. Roll crimping is also very forgiving of minor alterations in stack height, which are common with buckshot and slug loads. Ballistic Products has 20 gauge roll crimpers in stock and on sale, or you can get a cheaper one from Russia on eBay---not sure how well those work, as I have the BPI model, but it's a very simple device, so not hard to make. You'll want to get new hulls to make roll crimping easier, but these are cheap and readily available for about 12-15 cents apiece.
    Next in line, economy-wise, is the Lee Load-All, which costs about $55-60 and is widely available, even now. I use that to load all kinds of shells, and I like it; it's fold-crimp-only, but comes with all the bushings you'll need. It will also meter out powder charges, so you won't need a separate powder measure (though I'd definitely recommend a scale to check the weight of charges.) This will allow you to easily use reclaimed hulls from the range.
    You should also get a Lyman Shotshell Handbook, which had lots of good instruction and a decent number of 20 ga loads.
    Someone will, no doubt, recommend you go straight for a MEC loader, which is a fine piece of equipment, but much more expensive. You can occasionally find one of these used in decent condition, but prices on eBay have gone way up, shipping is usually expensive; you will find this far more difficult to set up, and you will probably need to order parts or bushings for any used equipment. You used to be able to find these at yard sales in some parts of the country (never around here in Massachusetts), but that's obviously a thing of the past.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Welcome. I am relatively new here too and for the same reasons as you.
    I just brought in some 20 gauge slugs for a friend today. I don't have one any longer.

    There is a dearth of defense rounds EVERYWHERE these days. I found this place in my search for shotgun reloading guidance.
    Since arriving, I've picked up a Lee reloader, components, Lee led melter, #4 and 00 buck dies and started reloading 12 gauge 2x3 00 buckshot and 12 gauge 2x5 00 buckshot loads. The 2x3 are what we call "Girlie" loads for my wife and her sister to shoot. Much much lighter than the 15 pellet 3" or 21 pellet 3 1/2" shells that I have loaded in my heavier defense guns.

    There are a lot of very knowledgeable and helpful people here.

    One thing to look into picking up is the BPI Buckshot loading manual. It was critical for me building up some loads.
    ETA... I also have the Lyman manual but have yet to crack it open. Good addition to have though.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy garrisonjoe's Avatar
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    A few decent 20 gauge buckshot loads can also be found in this older Alliant reloading pamphlet, now online

    http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebi ... t_2003.pdf

    Page 5.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I should have clarified a bit on the BPI manual. It helped with Rio, Cheddite and Fiocchi loads.

  8. #8
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    Lee makes a #4 mold. You need a single stage press. Lee makes the least expensive at just under $60 but one can sometimes find a good older Pacific press for under $50. Nice single stage MEC can be had around a $100 or so on ebay or posting in Swapping and Selling here as WTB (wanted to buy)
    https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-p...lee-load-all-2

    Need some bushings to measure powder and maybe shot. But buckshot is sort of large for presses to dispense.

    Lee makes a #4 buckshot mold that would be entirely suitable for $46
    https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-p...-buckshot-mold

    At inside the house SD ranges even larger sizes of regular shot are acceptable. You could look at Rotometals at top of page is a site sponsor or some of the online retailers such as Ballistic Products https://www.ballisticproducts.com/default.asp Shot is spendy in smaller quantities. Not cheap in general. Skeet and trap groups will sometimes order in bulk by pallet load and getting in on one of those orders may save you some money.

    Be aware there is a difference between reloading and loading with shot shells. Reloading the crimp fold lines will already exist, loading a new hull your press will have to form those crimp lines. The MEC or Pacific I think would do this better than the Lee Load All.

    Think of a 20 gauge hull with #4 buck as doing a mag dump from a 25 acp in a single shot with a nice grouping. Heck at short ranges even smaller shot is suitable, just not easily cast. Lee .31 ball mold is equivalent to #1 buckshot. Two cavity $20 mold is common, Track of the Wolf has the 6 cavity version of that mold and it is much more productive More penetration or range from larger ball of #1 vs #4 but downside is more likely to go through a wall with potentially deadly force than smaller buck shot.

    If there is a trap or skeet club nearby it would be worth going to see if you can get some mentoring. Instead of buying big 500 cnt bags of wads or hulls by the hundreds to experiment with maybe a fellow shooter with a press can help by letting you load a few of their stock allowing you to know what will work well in your use before you stock up.

    Lee wack a mole loaders do a very poor job of loading new hulls, they need the existing crimp lines to do anything approaching a decent crimp without a massive fight. They also cost almost as much as a Lee Load All or older Pacific which will give you better service. Bug out bag, pack loaded ammo not reloading gear.
    Last edited by RogerDat; 08-07-2020 at 01:46 PM.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

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  9. #9
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    If you are going to just open up existing Trap Loads and sub in Buckshot pellets of the same weight You kind of need a press to get the fold crimp to close back decently.

    Or you can just trim off the top of the shell with a razor blade and then Roll Crimp it back closed. This is the better option.

    Roll crimping offers the advantage of not having to deal with stack height as much. It obviously is critical with Fold Crimps.

    For HD I use my standard AA trap load which is 18gr of GD with a WAA12 clone wad and 9 #0 pellets and plastic over shot card and roll crimp closed.

    People need to understand that you don't need Rock and Roll loads for HD!!! 9 pellets at 1100 fps will still make as big a mess as the same 9 pellets at 1300 fps and you really don't need 1600 fps at all.

    In some cases more power is better however HD isn't one of them. Being able to run the gun and actually hit the target when you are about as wound up as you'll ever get, is far more important. You can't practice very much with High Base 00 Buckshot. Walmart Birdshot (when available) is much easier on you and accomplishes the same thing for way less $.

    Randy
    Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 08-08-2020 at 02:29 PM.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I think loading your own �� it’s a great idea . With a press or a roll crimper

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    If just practicing that one thing but do not use handloads for protection.

    If Reliability isn't an issue, it's legal problems you'll run into .

    Factory ammo, fresh factory ammo.

  12. #12
    In Remembrance bikerbeans's Avatar
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    Odd man out here. I have a 20ga pump for home defense loaded with factory 7/8 oz 6 shot. The longest legal shot I can take (legal meaning both me and the bad guy are in my house) is 60 feet. I will aim at the face, if he can't see he will probably not be threat. I don't want to send buckshot or slugs in my neighbor's direction because he will return fire.

    BB

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master


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    My information is based on loading empty hulls. I do not dump out loaded ammo, that just seems a waste to me unless you are in a country where that's all you have.

    One important aspect is will this be used in multiple guns? If not, then you may get away with a much simpler set up if you wish. If you are looking for dirt cheap, you can make a lot of things. One thing you can not get away from is a scale. I would recommend the RCBS balance scale. Do not go with an electric. If you only load for one gun, you may get away without resizing the hulls, if you use the ones fired in your gun. Alternatively, you can buy brand new hulls, and load them once, then throw them away. For this set up, all you will need in addition to the powder scale, is a roll crimper. For 2 3/4" shells, you can find the antique hand roll crimpers in garage sales, flea markets, or your best bet at the moment is ebay. Most roll crimpers you can buy new are intended for a drill. If you have a hand drill, or a drill press that goes slower than about 400 rpm, these can be an option, but don't necessarily do a better job. To reload these shells you will also need a long nail to deprime them. Then dowel works good to reprime. To measure powder, you can make your own powder scoop out of fired brass and some tie wire for a handle. Simply find a big enough caliber, like 44 magnum, and trim to the length you need. You can also buy the Lee powder scoop kit for cheap, and they work very well.

    While the above system works, and is dirt cheap, I think most people get sick of loading like that rather fast. A much better way is a press. I think the Lee Load All II is perfect for what you want. It is a complete set up for loading ammo, including shot and powder bushings. You would still need to buy a good powder scale. This way you are resizing the cases, and they will fit in any gun.

    So I would recommend the following, and these are not necessarily the best prices. This was a simple way of showing the items with no confusion.

    Lee Load All II in 20 gauge https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013165229
    RCBS balance scale https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016279058
    Lyman shotshell manual https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101316692?pid=887011

    Now for components, a lot depends on what you have now. Each hull type is unique. For slugs and buckshot, it will be hard to beat Federal hulls, and there is lots of data for them. To go with them, either Federal 209a or Winchester 209 primers will likely be the best. A Federal 20S1 wad should be a good choice for buckshot. It is also handy to have spacers to adjust load height. For these I like nitro cards and felt wads. Nitro cards I would buy 28 gauge, to fit inside the shot cup. Felt wads you can buy, but it is cheaper to punch your own with a wad punch. Felt material can be bought from durofelt, buy 1/8" felt for wads.

    Buckshot sizes is another matter. I have no experience with buckshot in 20 gauge, but it seems by my math for in a shot cup, that #4 buck may stack in layers of 4, but it would be tight. F shot (.220") may be a better choice than 4 buck. #3 would stack in perfect 3's. #2 would work in 2's, but #1 might be too tight to stack.

    If you trim the petals off the wad, things get easier. Then you could stack #1 perfectly in 2's, and #3 in 4's. You could go smaller with something like BB. I do not share the same sentiment on "bird shot", meaning #9 up to about #6 shot, for any defensive purposes. There are far too many cases of the bird shot making a nasty rib deep wound, with no effectiveness at all.
    Last edited by Pressman; 08-11-2020 at 10:25 AM. Reason: eBay links are a big no, no

  14. #14
    In Remembrance bikerbeans's Avatar
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    Ask Dick Cheney's hunting partner what he thinks about a load of birdshot in the face.

    BB

  15. #15
    Boolit Mold MrMarsHill's Avatar
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    All I can say is WOW! Thanks so much! I've been on plenty of forums over the years and one doesnt usually get such an outpouring of support and actual suggestions until you have "earned your worth" so to speak on those forums... not all, but most lol. I decided on theBPI 20 guage shell roll crimper to start. I also bought empty hulls and everything else I think I need on the bpi website... it shipped today. I'm very excited to get everything going! To whoever commented on not using rerolled shells for home defense... I wont(unless it's all i have someday). I would like to practice with buckshot that doesnt cost an arm and a leg and work on some defensive loads. Who knows. I may stumble onto something special for the 20 guage! I really think it's an underappreciated gauge in the defensive firearm world... but that's for another discussion! Again, thanks so much for al lkm the ideas, suggestions etc. Every comment made sense, was researchable, and helped me in my final decision FOR NOW. I have a terrible habit of finding a new hobby, falling in LOVE, and going head first into a several year binge of learning all I can etc... I can see this being the start of something special, lol. You will hear from me soon. I will have equipment and ideas and I'll want reliable advice before I do anything! I love internet research, books, hands on experimentation and experience, but I also like real advice from real live people who have done what I am trying to do. I'm confident I found that here. My most sincere thanks for every single one of your time you took to help me!
    Jim Brown
    Bonez Customs and Collectables

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMarsHill View Post
    All I can say is WOW! Thanks so much! I've been on plenty of forums over the years and one doesnt usually get such an outpouring of support and actual suggestions until you have "earned your worth" so to speak on those forums... not all, but most lol. I decided on theBPI 20 guage shell roll crimper to start. I also bought empty hulls and everything else I think I need on the bpi website... it shipped today. I'm very excited to get everything going! To whoever commented on not using rerolled shells for home defense... I wont(unless it's all i have someday). I would like to practice with buckshot that doesnt cost an arm and a leg and work on some defensive loads. Who knows. I may stumble onto something special for the 20 guage! I really think it's an underappreciated gauge in the defensive firearm world... but that's for another discussion! Again, thanks so much for al lkm the ideas, suggestions etc. Every comment made sense, was researchable, and helped me in my final decision FOR NOW. I have a terrible habit of finding a new hobby, falling in LOVE, and going head first into a several year binge of learning all I can etc... I can see this being the start of something special, lol. You will hear from me soon. I will have equipment and ideas and I'll want reliable advice before I do anything! I love internet research, books, hands on experimentation and experience, but I also like real advice from real live people who have done what I am trying to do. I'm confident I found that here. My most sincere thanks for every single one of your time you took to help me!
    Jim Brown
    Bonez Customs and Collectables
    What size shot did you go with?

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    I bought the lee load all 2 25 years ago . I loaded probably 500 to 600 shells and it did a good job on skeet loads to field loads. I have never used it again. It’s sitting in my shed for 20 years. I lost interest in shooting shotguns and started loading pistole and rifle loads by the 1,000’s

  18. #18
    Boolit Mold MrMarsHill's Avatar
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    I am tinkering with a question. I WOULD NOT load this and fire it before receiving advice from pros, research, practice, proper equipment, a safe "recipe" etc. I'm not looking to get hurt in an avoidable accident while experimenting. I'm very careful and have had lots of accidents (non firearm luckily) over the years still... you cant avoid it completely!But I've been planning to make some "pumpkin ball" rounds for my 20 guage with my lyman .562 cal round ball mold and some of my new goodies when they arrive! I have weighed each ball and they weigh 266 grains. SO 2 add up to 1.21 oz. I see 1.25 oz shot loads... would it be possible for me to make a 3" magnum "double ball" round at 1.21oz (532 grains) I am researching now and have been, I have books in the mail on the way, just looking for experienced opinions to go along with my researcg. I'm just thinking at this point. I have a thing for the civil war and revolutionary war etc and round balls get my juices flowing Haha. The only load data I could find was using a federal 3"hull(I got fiochi 3" primed from BPI) and 25.5 grams of "BlueDot" powder. Could I safely use my 3" fiochi primed new hulls from BPI, find some blue dot powder in my area if possible and throw 2 balls in an appropriate wad and hull with the correct amount of powder, crimp it all and be safe? I may even consider the lower end of the spectrum of gun powder load I can use to get the 2 balls out of the barrel and moving. The BIG slow moving projectiles do a lot of damage! This is all just mostly in experimentation and fun right now, but I'm practicing for full self reliance eventually. My " double ball" idea may not be tough to crack at all(probably already done, I've maybe seen it?NOT for 20 guage though I bet!), or it could just be a crap idea Haha. Either way, I'm sure somebody can tell me something. Why is there no other powder listed for the 1.25 oz load? There were several powders on the chart, just not for the 1.25 oz load? Is it just the only one they used making the chart maybe? Ill try to upload the screenshots. Dont worry about me packing up heavier than supposed to be shells etc. I'm not doing ANYTHING until I have a decent grasp and a plan and a "recipe". I am shooting for lower power fun to shoot loads here, not high velocity rippers! Is the blue dot powder something you would recommend for loading up buckshot and roundball/slug loads? That's all I plan to load as of now and am heading to the local shop asap for powder and primers if I can find them. If blue dot is not ideal for buckshot and roundball and slugs, what would you recommend? Will my 532 grain 1.21oz "double" ball shell even be possible? Too dangerous? Does anybody have a true recipe for something like this? I'm not going for ultra speed or long distance per say. I wouldnt mind decent accuracy in the end, but I like the idea of a slower moving roundball because it reminds me of the old days of warfare that I'm so interested in. I would love to be able to put the 2 balls in a nice group on a consistent basis! Any advice on this load would also be appreciated! Sorry if I should have started a new thread? I will if I need too. This double ball load has me wanting to make and fire/test some! I really cant see why with the right powder in the right amount the heavy loads pressure cant be tamed to make it work... but I could be dead wrong. That's why I ask! Thanks in advance for any advice on this shell I'm hoping to produce a few of! I'm definitely loading up some old school "punkin balls" and " buck and ball" rounds too if anybody has any suggestions on those for 20 guage? Always much appreciated everybody!
    Jim Brown Click image for larger version. 

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  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Well, as you have found... CB is a very unusual place on the Internet. VERY unusual in that the members here don't show disdain to new members. Advice, guidance and opinions are given without the drama that often accompanies it.

    ETA... You can always contact BPI with load questions. They don;t always ave the answers but they've been quite helpful in the past.

    As mentioned before. I would highly recommend the BPI buckshot manual and do some of their loads to get a feel for how things work with proven and tested loads. I did a couple of their loads with Fiocchi shells and they've worked extremely well. Flawless one might say.

    As for reliance on my loads for defense purposes, our home defense shotguns currently have factory loads in them but I wouldn't hesitate to trust my own loads if push ever comes to shove. Also considering that if you can find factory defense loads, you'll be paying a couple of bucks per shell.

    And MrMarsHill. Is that Mars Hill N.C. ??? If so, about 30 miles south of me.

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    MrMarsHill first put a single ball in the shotcup you are planning to use, and see if that size ball will go through your guns choke with just hand pressure.

    IF you succeed at that, then try 2.

    Then and only then would I consider actually firing a double ball load.

    Buck and Ball yes, for sure.

    As for powder you may want to look at longshot. I think I have heard/read that it does well with heavy loads.
    I truly believe we need to get back to basics.

    Get right with the Lord.
    Get back to the land.
    Get back to thinking like our forefathers thought.


    May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make His face to shine upon you and be gracious unto you
    and give you His peace. Let all of the earth – all of His creation – worship and praise His name! Make His
    praise glorious!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check