The Anti subsonic thread...

[Larry Gibson]

Years ago I read that much of the report/noise, is a result of the bullet breaking the sound barrier, 1100fps....

Not correct; With an unsuppressed firearm the majority of the noise will be the muzzle blast. Factually, if you are the shooter or within close proximity [probably 100+/- yards] you will most likely not hear any of the sonic crack [bullet breaking the sound barrier] at all as it is completely overshadowed by the intensity and duration of the muzzle blast. You'll need you are a considerable distance down range [usually within a 120 degree cone +/- from the shooter] before the ballistic crack becomes distinguishable. If you've ever pulled targets in a 200, 300, 600 or farther target pit you hear the ballistic crack quite well.

The military actually uses a technique called "crack and thump" to determine distance and range to a single shooter [many times erroneously referred to as a "sniper"]. If the "sniper" has a good suppressor you will hear a "crack" and perhaps a "splat" of the bullet hitting. However, you won't hear the "thump" to get a direction as it is almost impossible to get a direction the shot came from by the crack alone. When you dive for cover the question remains; "am I behind cover or in front of cover?" A very frightful prospect indeed. Now what does this have to do with this discussion? Well, when hunting the game [other than the original target or if you missed] will be just as confused. I've had coyotes just stand and look at their partner who has just been shot or, if the run it is very slow with them stopping shortly to look around. Sometimes they even run over to their buddy to see what's wrong or even run towards me. I've had ground squirrels run over to there buddy with a "what you doin" look just before a bullet finds them.....Animals do the darndest things.....when there is no muzzle blast to spook them. With sub-sonic there isn't even the "crack"......

Now, with all that said, subsonic bullets do make noise flying through the air....a "swoosh" if you will. How loud is dependent on the shape and caliber of the bullet with a given 1050 fps muzzle velocity a 45 caliber RN bullet makes a lot more noise than a 22LR RN bullet flying through the air. A WC or SWC will make more noise than RN. Many times the loudest noise is going to be the action of the firearm functioning, if a semi-automatic, or the bullet striking the target.

As I've mention before, as have others, my sub-sonic suppressed loads are quieter than my springer pellet rifles.

[Larry Gibson]

i don't a "silencer", probably never will. i use hearing protection muffs on my range, i don't do it hunting. muzzle brakes ought to banned for use on ranges, the feds ought to tax them!!!!!

as far as "silencers" are concerned, if you have them, use them. if you don't, then don't. it doesn't bother me. i don't like the waiting game either and the $200 for each "silencer" are the fed's wet dream. i'll pay $30 for my c&r for 3 years because i like and own old rifles. my army days are behind me. i would have liked to use a "can" but they weren't popular back then.

Please feel free to do as you will, that is what a "free" country is supposed to be about. However. the attitude you express in your 1st paragraph is what will divide us gunowners and eventually allow the gun grabbers to win. I would simply offer the advise of Aristotle as quoted in post #46. We all have our own likes and dislikes in this shooting game and we should be tolerant of the other guys likes even if we don't like it. Just saying.....

Additionally, I'm not pushing for everyone to get or use a suppressor. Nor am I even saying they should. I'm just laying out the facts about them and their use and why and how I use them.

As to the cost ($200) of the tax and the wait I've never cared for either but it is what it is. Hopefully, if we stick together, we can get that changed in the future. I got my 1st suppressor in '80 and have used it a lot over the years on different rifles from 22LR up through 308W. I have rebuilt it twice [prior to the regulation prohibiting that] and it's still working fine on a 308W LR rifle. Thus the onetime $200 fee has been amortized down to $5 a year. My 223 suppressor is used on a 22LR, and AR, and 2 Contender barrels; a 22 Hornet and a 223 barrel. I shoot full power jackets loads and sub-sonic cast through them. I expect all my suppressors will out last me even though I use them a lot.

Guess I was lucky "back then" in the Army as an SF weapons NCO I had many different suppressors and suppressed guns available for use....and I did use them...... They are readily available to many other units now and are even a requirement on many newer weapons.

[rking22]

To answer the question, cause that’s what they/we find interesting. Same with the folk want to pour a whole can of slow powder in a huge case to get an additional 200 FPS over an 06, cause it’s interesting to them.
I have hunted with subsonic 22LR for decades now, from a long barrel it allows me to get several squirrels from the same tree and the woods settles down quicker. I have finally bit the bullet and sent in my 200$ tax for a 22 can. I have a couple pistols that are just too loud for my likes, even sub. I consider it my retirement present to myself. Need to thread my barrels while I still have access to the plant machine shop! Good excuse anyway!

[Gtek]

I am glad I have all mine and I want more, a wet can with Mr. Eley out of a 22" bolt is a hoot!

[Ozark mike]

I support the constitution including the 2nd and any one who wants to own supressors muzzlebreaks howitzers rpgs and yes a hand grenade to drop in the portapottie. You may hear me say i absolutely hate m16s but i support anyone who wants to own one in every size shape caliber color. Even tho i think they are a joke. And why is this you say because when i was a snot nosed kid i de cided to join the service and learned that these freedoms we have are well worth dyin for so if anyone thinks that the US constitution is something to wipe yore feet on ya should take off while yore feet can still carry ya. Dont get me wrong i support the freedom of speech also im not directing this at any one person or entity well except maybe the demorats just speaking my feelings on the subject

[charlie b]

EDIT:

Well guys, I was 9 beers into a 6 pack when I decided to drop a proverbial "hand grenade in a port-o-potty"... Sorry 'bout that...

ROFLMAO

[Larry Gibson]

"hand grenade in a port-o-potty"

Not sure I could move away quick enough any more in 3 - 5 seconds.......

[17nut]

You'll still need ear protection. They do not actually silence, they just reduce the sound level 30 or 40dB. (1) That's from around 190dB. Check out the VSO Gun Channel on Youtube, search "pillow" and find "Pillow vs Silencer: Is it a Hollywood Myth?" Watch it. You'll get a much better idea of the reality of what silencers do. (2) He gets a subsonic 300 Blackout down to about 125dB. Pretty quiet for a gun, but not at all silent.

I'd like to be able to shoot without ear protection, too. OTH, I'm the oldest male in my family not wearing hearing aides, and I'd like to keep it that way.

(1) Oh, please do tell us what shoulder fired weapon that gets near 190dB!!!
Inquisitive minds want to know.
I havent heard of anything going much past 165-168dB, but please educate us nimwits!


(2) Since the action on an ar cycling is around 118dB then i'd say it's damn fine, but you're the expert?


Anything much past 36-38dB are very rare in a muffler but as stated elswhere it's enough to use the weapon without earmuffs and still keep the best part of your hearing.

Illigal 4 years ago in Denmark but now you are frowned upon at the range without. Everyone likes quiert
And no not a single illegal act with a silencer since (or before for that matter), go figure!

[trebor44]

Interesting reading as usual. Last fall, a nice Buck was poached well inside city limits, in a park by a 'bow' person (wouldn't call them a hunter). They left a blood trail to their jeep, loaded and left. Yeah, per that 'event' it appears to be easy to poach inside city limits and you don't need a suppressor. However, I do wish they did not need the tax stamp and the other documentation!

[Gone_rabid]

Suppressor? Yes please.

[Cast_outlaw]

If done right they are cheep accurate fun
303british
Lee tl 90-312-tc
Wlrp 5gr Vectan as
25 and 50 yards

And not loud enough to need hearing protection

[Larry Gibson]

Cast_outlaw

bet that is very quiet.......

[Cast_outlaw]

Cast_outlaw

bet that is very quiet.......

My lighter true subsonic 900fps you can hear the hammer fall over the report
Those targets were shot at 1365 but still quieter than a Cci 22 quiet

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I prefer my revolver rounds to be subsonic. More pleasant to shoot. 1600 to 1700 fps with cast in my .308 is just fine though.

[Burnt Fingers]

At the moment I am having trouble with subsonic suppressed 22lr being too noisy! In the quiet of night and neighbors out of sight (semi-rural), I do not want those neighbors to hear me at all. Muzzle 'blast' is just a spitting sound but not silent. Tran-sonic crack is a nuisance and quite audible. Fully sub-sonic is so inaccurate I might as well use a catapult. I'm not talking about hearing preservation here, I'm talking about not disturbing neighbors. If I heard my neighbor shooting at night. I would pop over and ask to join him but you get my point.

My point is I have plenty of use for a suppressor and sub-sonic ammo. Low recoil and a good hard hit on the other end is rather satisfying.

And as Larry has pointed out - a good suppressor does not need hearing protection with full power loads.

Can you get standard velocity 22 ammo?

I was shooting my braced Charger yesterday with standard velocity ammo and the nosiest thing was the action cycling.

[Gone_rabid]

The 22 cci quiets are insanely quiet in a bolt action. From 20’ away I can hear the bullet hit paper and darn near nothing else. They also have semi auto quiets to cycle the semi autos.

[Larry Gibson]

My lighter true subsonic 900fps you can hear the hammer fall over the report
Those targets were shot at 1365 but still quieter than a Cci 22 quiet

Barrel length can make a difference in sub or sonic from standard velocity 22LR. Optimal barrel length for max velocity is supposed to be 18" - 20" +/-. When shooting some 22LR standard velocity out of my 20" barrel AR with M261 device I get a 'snap" right in front of the barrel as the velocity is breaking the sound barrier. However, it is just a bit so it's not very loud and the bullet quickly goes sub-sonic and the "snap/crack" ceases. With Winchester match, particularly pistol match, all I hear is the little bolt functioning [the ear is right there on an AR] and the bullet strike the target. With 22LR equivalent cast loads in my 22 Hornet and 223 Rem Contender barrels with a 225438 at 1000 fps all I hear is the hammer fall. With a 225415 at 1100 fps there is a slight pppssfffttt at the muzzle but the hammer strike/fall still seems louder. That's at the range with a tin roof over head. Out in the field I barely hear anything, even with my hearing aides on.....

[Larry Gibson]

My lighter true subsonic 900fps you can hear the hammer fall over the report
Those targets were shot at 1365 but still quieter than a Cci 22 quiet

Barrel length can make a difference in sub or sonic from standard velocity 22LR. Optimal barrel length for max velocity is supposed to be 18" - 20" +/-. When shooting some 22LR standard velocity out of my 20" barrel AR with M262 device I get a 'snap" right in front of the barrel as the velocity is breaking the sound barrier. However, it is just a bit so it's not very loud and the bullet quickly goes sub-sonic and the "snap/crack" ceases. With Winchester match, particularly pistol match, all I hear is the little bolt functioning [the ear is right there on an AR] and the bullet strike the target. With 22LR equivalent cast loads in my 22 Hornet and 223 Rem Contender barrels with a 225438 at 1000 fps all I hear is the hammer fall. With a 225415 at 1100 fps there is a slight pppssfffttt at the muzzle but the hammer strike/fall still seems louder. That's at the range with a tin roof over head. Out in the field I barely hear anything, even with my hearing aides on.....

My 22 Hornet Contender....

Attachment 265988

[robg]

there is no need to go subsonic with a mod it still takes most of the noise off ,but its a hoot when all you hear is the boolit hitting the target.

[M-Tecs]

there is no need to go subsonic with a mod it still takes most of the noise off ,but its a hoot when all you hear is the boolit hitting the target.

If you want to eliminate the sonic boom of the bullet there is.