The Anti subsonic thread...

[Harter66]

I'm a number guy . I lived in a state that had a minimum energy required for big game .

I recently worked a 45-70 250 gr load over 2000 fps . I didn't enjoy shooting that load .
A 500 gr bullet best described as an ogival SWC at 500 gr and 1050 fps takes 25% of a powder costing 2/3 as much and will carry the 1000# an additional 100 yd while not killing the shooter too . It makes my 45-70 cost about $8/100 to shoot .

30 cal takes a .310 BC 1900 fps MV to carry the 1000# to 100 yd . The assorted 230s will get down to 1300 or so .

Honestly I get a kick out of shooting 223 , 62 gr subs over 2.5 gr of powder and hearing the clickpop cling on steel is a hoot .

It's about shooting low report , low recoil , reduced consumption loads that may be suited to taking game . Sure suppressors are part of it . In Europe many areas require suppressors to hunt .

I saw video maybe 2 years ago of some hog hunters in Tx with deciblometers shooting full tilt 120 gr 6.8 SPC and 308 . Unmuzzled they were 165 DB or close , suppressed the muzzle report was just 109-111 db as a final test a meter was set up next to a cadaver donor hog . Bullet impact was 115 db .

I don't remember now what the db scale calibrates to but I do remember that average human hearing starts at around 40-45 db and damage can happen around 96 db continuous and 110 shock . I also know that the XR650R I rode for a while was pretty quiet at the USFS spark arrester muffler rating of 85 db was pretty quiet actually . Wearing a full face helmet the wind around 50 mph cancelled out the exhaust . If it weren't for the fact that I didn't want Uncle to have a name and address to fast track a pick up and it wasn't $200 for the $300 unit I'd probably have a couple myself . Fact is if they were not NFA items they'd be about $100-150 and a whole lot of us would have them .

[lksmith]

Craze ,buzzword ,bandwagon,take your pick........Only true purpose of supressed subsonic is military ,or for poaching animals from private land without the landowner hearing any noise to indicate the crime is happening ,till he finds the remains of one of his steers the next day.

WRONG!!!! (or you forgot the green sarcasm font)
There are multiple legitimate uses for them such as: hunting without spooking other animals, hurting my ears, my dog's ears, shooting pests while on a conference call or causing a lot of noise such as taking out hogs in town for a property owner. just to name a few
My former landlady had a hog problem in the park we were living in and asked me if I would quietly take them out for her in lieu of rent since they were tearing up the $2000+ landscaping she had done. The park we were in was mostly families and old folks, and inside city limits. A suppressed subsonic shot kills better than an arrow and while unsuppressed is legal, suppressed just causes a lot less disturbance to the peace

Also, I like to take my suppressed 22 pistol and shoot squirrels while deer hunting, quiet enough to not spook the deer and I always come home with meat

[Ozark mike]

Well my train of thought (or whats left of it) is since im so good at breaking stuff like noses, laws, glass, Chinese crap and hearts i might as Well break the sound Barrier every chance i get

[mikeatl]

Well now you know why they have the gun laws they have. Heck , with his way of thinking all they need are muzzle loaders. The only reason you need cased ammo is so you can load faster.

[444ttd]

Please feel free to do as you will, that is what a "free" country is supposed to be about. However. the attitude you express in your 1st paragraph is what will divide us gunowners and eventually allow the gun grabbers to win. I would simply offer the advise of Aristotle as quoted in post #46. We all have our own likes and dislikes in this shooting game and we should be tolerant of the other guys likes even if we don't like it. Just saying.....

Additionally, I'm not pushing for everyone to get or use a suppressor. Nor am I even saying they should. I'm just laying out the facts about them and their use and why and how I use them.

As to the cost ($200) of the tax and the wait I've never cared for either but it is what it is. Hopefully, if we stick together, we can get that changed in the future. I got my 1st suppressor in '80 and have used it a lot over the years on different rifles from 22LR up through 308W. I have rebuilt it twice [prior to the regulation prohibiting that] and it's still working fine on a 308W LR rifle. Thus the onetime $200 fee has been amortized down to $5 a year. My 223 suppressor is used on a 22LR, and AR, and 2 Contender barrels; a 22 Hornet and a 223 barrel. I shoot full power jackets loads and sub-sonic cast through them. I expect all my suppressors will out last me even though I use them a lot.

Guess I was lucky "back then" in the Army as an SF weapons NCO I had many different suppressors and suppressed guns available for use....and I did use them...... They are readily available to many other units now and are even a requirement on many newer weapons.

i never went SF, i couldn't speak no other languages and i wasn't a sergeant or above, just a specialist. i was a 12B with 51B on the side. i was also a op 4, for 2 weeks a year, 5 years running(i was a reservist, '91 - '97). the mp5 sd and the suppressed sterling were about the only suppressed rifles i could think of back then. but they weren't available(army) to me, so i didn't use them. the suppressed weapons weren't available to the grunts as they are now.

my comment on muzzle brakes was tongue in cheek. i should have put a or after that. i'm sorry.
i just hate muzzle brakes, i had one in a savage m116(adjustable muzzle brake) and my dad still has one(tc 'tender with a muzzle brake, i think it is a super 14" barrel?) we have our range, but at one time we didn't. we got tired of the "concussion" (i guess that is what you'd say?) of the muzzle brakes that everybody had, when the mb were en vogue.
anyway, i got off topic, i'm sorry that it got off that way. taxing a mb or a suppressor is not right.

[303Guy]

I call muzzle breaks (spelling deliberate) muzzle blast intensifiers - and they are. I'm not excessively fond of recoil or muzzle blast. So, I built this simple device I put on my Brit. It looks like a suppressor and it almost sounds like suppressor but it feels like a muzzle brake (correct spelling deliberate). All I need for shooting comfort is to wear cheap ear plugs sideways. I can hear normally with them. I just can't control muzzle rise! It's like a small rocket engine pushing gently but firmly. It overhangs the barrel by about an inch. The thing is great! Unfortunately it looks too much like a suppressor to be legal in the US. I think it would fail on noise reduction too. Sound level may only be reduced by one half if I'm not mistaken? That's from 165 db to 162 db. I'm sure this thing is more effective than that.