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Thread: How fast is fast enough?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I’ve only killed one deer with 45 Colt. I have three m25-5 S&Ws. Two are set up for target loads and one set up for 250Gr traditional RNFP. I picked up wrong case and had WC pistol & Ammo. The 242gr button nose WC at 700fps, cast very soft. I shoot iron sights so I limit shots to 50yds, this one was about 30yds. It flopped around and naturally ended up 50yds down hill, but it were dead.
    I have killed one deer with a 1911 Gold Cup and several with 44mg. There is no reason a 1873 in 45 Colt won’t take deer at 100yds. I only shoot 50yds with handgun because of self imposed limit.
    Out of rifle 100yds is no big deal. I’ve shot many deer in eastern states. I have never shot a deer with pistol cartridge carbine or rifle. The bulk of deer shot with rifle were 35Rem/ Rem 141. Most shot on the run under 100yds. Second place 30/30. Deer ain’t Cape buffalo, your 1873 will do fine.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master smkummer's Avatar
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    Unique, herco, IMR 4227, blue dot and AA9 will give you about 1200 FPS with colt pressures out of your rifle. It’s not rocket science. Let us know what you go with and what your chrono says.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    22lr has takin more deer than i can count.( Not promoting that idea just saying) any .45lc load should do the job
    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

  4. #24
    Boolit Master

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    Went to the range with some more test loads today. Used a 260 gr RNFP powder coated with 2400 and 4227 powders. Found 1 load with each that gave sub 1 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yards. Both loads were moderately warm. Both loads had a "flyer" that was probably me that opened the groups to just under 1 inch. The other 4 bullets cut ragged 1 hole groups of around 1/2 inch. I think those are accurate enough for my purposes. Now I need to chrono them to see if they meet a minimum 900 FPS threshold. If either of them go that fast or faster, I think I've got my new deer load.

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
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    I killed 8 axis and couple wtd with the 45 Colt, Marlin CB, Lee 255, and Unique. All were one shot kills on yearlings to a 185# buck. My limit is 75 yards but if practiced and confident, 100 yards is doable. It's my favorite open sight deer rifle. Not sure of the speed but accuracy is paramount. From a rest, clays on the 100 yard berm don't stand a chance.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master

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    That is the kind of accuracy I'm looking for. I just want to have plenty of power behind it as well. Last year I took a 40 yard buck using the same 260 gr. boolit with a charge of 9 grains of Unique and dropped him in his tracks, but the accuracy of that load isn't as good as I want. I do want to be able to reach out to 100 and be sure of a clean hit as long as I do my part.

  7. #27
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    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
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    A 250 gr boolit will go clean thru an Elk in any direction at 900 fps. If you are above that you are good to go. Use a flat nosed boolit or better yet a SWC.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy kaiser's Avatar
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    I've killed 3 deer with a 1873 "short" rifle (20" BBL), none of them went more than a few feet before expiring. The loads I use are from 1200 to 1400fps and 100 yards is my max range for shooting because of trajectory, not power. My best, most accurate bullet is a 255gr cast bullet from a Lee mold using Unique, AA5, Blue Dot, or SR4759 powder. The .45Colt has more than enough power, but is harder to hit with at extended range and "iron" sights. The rifle's action limits the OAL and design of the bullet for easy "cycling" and functioning (SWC designs do not feed well!). The OAL length of the cartridge is more critical in a 1873 than a 1894, or 1892 action; it will NOT feed Schoffield rounds. Even with its limited range capabilities, it is a "blast" to shoot and hunt with - just get closer to use its best features. Oh, I've not recovered a bullet to see if my BIN of 12 to 14 is to soft or too hard!.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master .45Cole's Avatar
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    Looks like you have some pretty good answers. I took a long time studying when I was going to hunt elk with my 1894 .45, and in the end I found that:
    1. monentum, a boolit with at least 250gr
    2. flat meplat, large the better but at least a LBT design or a swc design (no 454190's!!!)
    3. impact velocity of 850fps or better, but not too high (say 1200fps)
    4. research and use point blank range method of distance with iron sights

    The boolit will bust through bone and will almost always exit, leaving a large wound channel and shock from the hydrostatic pop of the flatnose. The animals seem to go less than 50yds before collapsing, so no shots around that steep mesa. Never got a shot at an elk with the .45.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master 444ttd's Avatar
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    44spl with 255gr keith with 7.5gr of unique is a deer dropper. or a 250gr penta hp with a skeeter load. or a 44 mag with 280gr wfn and 10.0gr of unique.

    i use them all in a ruger sbh and a 4 5/8" barrel. i limit myself to 50 yards. but i'm sure that it could take a deer at 100 yards.
    Ad Reipublicae his Civitatum Foederatarum Americae, ego sum fortis et libero. Ego autem non exieris ad impios communistarum socialismi. Ora imagines in vestri demented mentem, quod vos mos have misericordia, quia non.

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  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy Static line's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    A 250 gr boolit will go clean thru an Elk in any direction at 900 fps. If you are above that you are good to go. Use a flat nosed boolit or better yet a SWC.

    Randy
    Really? Would you believe that just last week I got my butt chewed off on another site because I shoot 255 gr. Keith SWC from my 45 Colt Marlin and suggested that to another fella to hunt White Tail with. I couldn't believe what I heard from that high post ranking expert.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    I am of the bullet placement group. Put the bullet through both front shoulders and they go down where they stand, it doesn't really matter what bullet you use in 45 Colt. And at slow velocity, you can eat right up to the small hole.

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy Static line's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    I am of the bullet placement group. Put the bullet through both front shoulders and they go down where they stand, it doesn't really matter what bullet you use in 45 Colt. And at slow velocity, you can eat right up to the small hole.
    Oh no, I don't like shooting them in the shoulders. You have to much of a chance of ruining a lot of good eating and I sure don't want to waste something that I am killing.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    Why the hard lead? he wants to drop em on the spot. I woulda thought some expansion would help that happen?
    IJ,You feel 20:1 is HARD?????

    Not in my world brother! Its worked for too many to count for me!

    CW
    NRA Life member • REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.
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  15. #35
    Boolit Master 444ttd's Avatar
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    Ad Reipublicae his Civitatum Foederatarum Americae, ego sum fortis et libero. Ego autem non exieris ad impios communistarum socialismi. Ora imagines in vestri demented mentem, quod vos mos have misericordia, quia non.

    To the Republic of these United States of America, I am strong and free. I will never surrender to godless communist socialism. Pray to images in your demented mind, that you will have mercy, because i will not.

    MOLON LABE

  16. #36
    Boolit Master

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    Finally got out to chrono those accuracy loads. Unique, 998 FPS with a SD of 4! 4227 1012 FPS, SD of 8. 2400 1058 FPS with a SD of 12. All three loads group under 1.25 inches at 50 yards using peep sights off a sand bag. Those are 5 shot groups. Discounting the single outlier in each group, the average group size was under .70 inches for 4 shots. None of these loads are anywhere near max. I figured best accuracy would be around the 75%-80% loadings. Now my question is, which would you guys use?

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master
    Mk42gunner's Avatar
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    Given your stated range and accuracy, I don't think it will make any difference at all which of the three loads you use. I seriously doubt that a difference of 60 fps will be noticeable upon impact with a deer.

    While I might be inclined to try a slightly higher velocity, I think these loads will work in your particular situation. Just keep in mind you have handgun level ballistics even though you are holding a rifle in your hands.

    Good Luck,

    Robert

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwlongshot View Post
    IJ,You feel 20:1 is HARD?????

    Not in my world brother! Its worked for too many to count for me!

    CW
    You wrote "moderate hardness" ...................... I went for softer the better so long as it will shoot accurate.
    What point in using a boolit that will not expand when its an easy deal to soften the mix and double (or triple) the size of the hole you make???

  19. #39
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    You wrote "moderate hardness" ...................... I went for softer the better so long as it will shoot accurate.
    What point in using a boolit that will not expand when its an easy deal to soften the mix and double (or triple) the size of the hole you make???
    I did then I wrote about 20:1..

    NOT DISAGREEING with ya brother!!

    PC allows MUCH softer alloys. And in a hunting bullet that dosent require SUPER DEEP penetration. What better then that!! The hard cast has its place. Like heavy skins & big bones, but that aint whitetails.


    CW
    NRA Life member • REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.
    Come visit my RUMBLE & uTube page's !!

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  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    through the years ive noticed quite a few hunters use 50/50 wheel weight/pure lead and a bit of tin. pistol hunters report great success with 240-270 gr at 1200fps.
    and 30-30 shooters have taken an untold number of deer through the ages with 173 grain bullet at 1800-2000 fps.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check