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Thread: Help with PID

  1. #1
    Boolit Master prickett's Avatar
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    Help with PID

    I just built a PID controller using a PID donated to me (Red Lion T48). I believe it is wired correctly, but when I plug a lamp or Lee lead furnace into it, I'm not getting light or heat. I then plugged in a volt meter and am seeing 95.2 volts going to the output.

    2 questions:
    1) would 95.2 V be too low to power on the lamp or furnace? (meaning the PID is working correctly, but just doesn't have the output power set correctly?)
    2) if the above is too low, what needs to be configured to up the output V? I see % Output Power, which looks likely, but the docs say "Appears only if unit is in Manual Control". The manual then describes "Manual Control" as "and Manual Control (openloop; where the control does not work from the setpoint or process feedback.)"

  2. #2
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    Mike W1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prickett View Post
    I just built a PID controller using a PID donated to me (Red Lion T48). I believe it is wired correctly, but when I plug a lamp or Lee lead furnace into it, I'm not getting light or heat. I then plugged in a volt meter and am seeing 95.2 volts going to the output.

    2 questions:
    1) would 95.2 V be too low to power on the lamp or furnace? (meaning the PID is working correctly, but just doesn't have the output power set correctly?)
    2) if the above is too low, what needs to be configured to up the output V? I see % Output Power, which looks likely, but the docs say "Appears only if unit is in Manual Control". The manual then describes "Manual Control" as "and Manual Control (openloop; where the control does not work from the setpoint or process feedback.)"
    I'd be happy to help if I can but it'd really help to know what the PID model is and the wiring diagram that you used. Maybe best if you PM that info to me along with your email address as that stuff is more easily handled (IMO) via email. Easier to send files or attachments if needed. Quick guess would be a wire hooked in wrong place somewhere.
    Mike

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  3. #3
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    HATCH's Avatar
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    Can you take a picture of your setup?

    I found the manual -> https://www.instrumart.com/assets/Re...P48-Manual.pdf

    You should have a SSR that you are using.
    For discussion we are gonna label the ssr as the picture below shows
    Click image for larger version. 

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    1 should be incoming power (line)
    2 should be power going out (load)
    3 Positive from your PID controller
    4 neg from your PID controller

    Using your volt meter do the following
    AC VOLTAGE

    wall outlet - check neutral to hot Should be 110-125vac
    SSR - check neutral to #1 Should be the above voltage
    SSR check neutral to #2 (when PID is powered up and is not at set point) should be within 1 volt of the above voltage
    SSR check #1 to #2 should be a very low number if not zero

    DC VOLTAGE

    Check # 3 and # 4 - should be between 3 and 32 vdc most likely 5 to 10 vdc

    Do those checks and provide some pictures if you want me to help you
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master prickett's Avatar
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    Here is what I did. I wired it up just to see if it'd work before spending time putting it in a neat enclosure. Given my history with projects, I didn't want to waste time and money only to find it doesn't work (as, well, it turned out not to).

    The green wire going off the picture to the left is the AC power.
    The green wire going off the picture to the right feeds the Lee furnace.
    The Red and white wires at the 12 o'clock of the PID are the thermocouple inputs (8 and 9 on the PID diagram)
    The Red and white wires at the 3 0'clock of the PID are the AC inputs (11 and 12 on the PID diagram)
    The Red and white wires at the 6 o'clock of the PID are the outputs to the SSR (4 and 5 on the PID diagram)

    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #5
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    looks like its wired up right.
    need to verify voltages.

    I ran into a issue a couple months ago which caused me to make a 90 min service call to visit a Master Caster Panel customer.
    The pot would never get up to temp. I checked my voltages and we had 119 vac at the outlet, 119 vac on the line side but only 85 vac on the load side. The SSR was calling for full voltage as its is a ON/OFF device it isn't like a valve were it controls the amount of voltage.
    I replaced the SSR with a spare that I had brought and life was good again.

    The PID pulses the SSR to regulate the temp.
    Typically on initial startup you will see some quick on/off on the SSR (if yours has a light) then it will go solid.
    Once it gets close to the set point it will start flashing again and when at set point it will flash as it is trying to maintain the temp.
    Imagine the SSR as a rocket engine with just a on/off switch. It is either wide open or its off.
    Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
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  6. #6
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    I think I got something
    Looking over closely at the SSR, I noticed something.

    That model SSR uses 90-280 VAC on the control side.

    I believe that model PID provided a @7 volt output for the SSR.
    That would explain why you aren't getting any heating as you aren't activating the SSR.
    Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
    The rules are simple to follow.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master prickett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HATCH View Post
    looks like its wired up right.
    need to verify voltages.

    I ran into a issue a couple months ago which caused me to make a 90 min service call to visit a Master Caster Panel customer.
    The pot would never get up to temp. I checked my voltages and we had 119 vac at the outlet, 119 vac on the line side but only 85 vac on the load side. The SSR was calling for full voltage as its is a ON/OFF device it isn't like a valve were it controls the amount of voltage.
    I replaced the SSR with a spare that I had brought and life was good again.
    Sounds similar to what I'm seeing. 119 vac going into the PID, but only 85 vac coming out.

    Quote Originally Posted by HATCH View Post
    Typically on initial startup you will see some quick on/off on the SSR (if yours has a light) then it will go solid.
    Once it gets close to the set point it will start flashing again and when at set point it will flash as it is trying to maintain the temp.
    Imagine the SSR as a rocket engine with just a on/off switch. It is either wide open or its off.
    Mine has a light but it never illuminates.

    Further observations:
    When I put a volt meter on the main control output, I get a 0 vac reading. When I place the volt meter on the output cord (that feeds the Lee furnace), I see 85 VAC. Does that seem like the SSR is broken (stuck in the on position)?

    Quote Originally Posted by HATCH View Post
    That model SSR uses 90-280 VAC on the control side.

    I believe that model PID provided a @7 volt output for the SSR.
    That would explain why you aren't getting any heating as you aren't activating the SSR.
    This, combined with the no light coming on would suggest this is the problem. I don't understand, however, how I'm getting 85 vac going to the furnace if the SSR isn't in the on state.

  8. #8
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    Help with PID

    Your getting bleed thru voltage but no current

    Get the correct ssr


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
    The rules are simple to follow.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master prickett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HATCH View Post
    Your getting bleed thru voltage but no current

    Get the correct ssr


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Will do. Does this look like a good candidate?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    https://www.amazon.com/INKBIRD-Solid..._t2_B017W7N4J2

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Is #4&5 main control output actually DC voltage. Your SSR is actually controlled by 90-280 volts AC. The OP needs one like the pic in Hatch's post #3.

    That inkbird should work!
    Last edited by jsizemore; 08-07-2020 at 07:44 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by prickett View Post
    Sounds similar to what I'm seeing. 119 vac going into the PID, but only 85 vac coming out.



    Mine has a light but it never illuminates.

    Further observations:
    When I put a volt meter on the main control output, I get a 0 vac reading. When I place the volt meter on the output cord (that feeds the Lee furnace), I see 85 VAC. Does that seem like the SSR is broken (stuck in the on position)?



    This, combined with the no light coming on would suggest this is the problem. I don't understand, however, how I'm getting 85 vac going to the furnace if the SSR isn't in the on state.
    Since your getting 0 vac at the main control output, try changing your meter to DC voltage.

  12. #12
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    That inkbird will work.
    Please keep in mind that there is a very slight possibility that the PID May of been damaged by using the incorrect SSR but I am pretty sure it’s gonna be ok.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
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  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy dpoe001's Avatar
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    i can send you or email you the manual for everything you have or pics on how to wire it up or if it needs it repair board for the pid.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy dpoe001's Avatar
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    Private message sent on the pid

  15. #15
    Boolit Master prickett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsizemore View Post
    Since your getting 0 vac at the main control output, try changing your meter to DC voltage.
    Thanks for noticing my error. I tried DC and am still getting 0 volts. Seems like the PID might be defective? I'm going to try a new SSR first, then a new PID if it still doesn't work.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy dpoe001's Avatar
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    that str is not DC voltage it is 120 VAC

  17. #17
    Boolit Master prickett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpoe001 View Post
    that str is not DC voltage it is 120 VAC
    The input to the SSR I used says 90-260 VAC.

    The output on the PID has a positive and negative terminal. And, the Inkbird SSR I ordered shows input of 3-32 VDC. Based on the PID having +/- terminals I believe the feed to the SSR is VDC.

  18. #18
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    I unsubscribed to this thread so if you need any additional help send me a PM


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
    The rules are simple to follow.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master prickett's Avatar
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    I received my new SSR and it does not change things. I believe that the PID isn't sending out a signal to the SSR (volt meter shows 0 VDC coming out). So a new PID is next up

  20. #20
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    A quick way to check the PID is to take the TC leads loose on the back of the PID. Short across those 2 terminals with a jumper wire and the readout on the PID should show ambient temperature.
    Mike

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    One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
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