Getting back on my 44-40 for my original Winchester 1873.

[Babbott213]

Figured it was time to get back on my 44-40 for my original Winchester 1873. I’ve had these bullets for a few years now that John Kort AKA W44wcf had sent me to try out. (I sure do miss him around here. May you Rest In Peace Sir. And Thank You for all of the information that you shared over the years.). These are the .429" 222 GRAIN HOLLOW BASE 20-1 SPG LUBE from Buffalo Arms. Hoping that these work well in my oversize bore. If the work day tomorrow, I may shoot these five tomorrow afternoon since I now have a Chronograph so I can see exactly how fast my bullets are going. Fingers Crossed. I loaded these with 40 grain of 2F Swiss. This will be my first time using Swiss powder as well. I’ve heard a lot of good things about it.






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[Der Gebirgsjager]

Those look O.K.! I'd shoot 'em!

[Huvius]

The one on the left is missing the lube...

Also, is that Starline brass?
Why doesn't Starline have any shoulder for the 44/40? Even new cases are completely straight walled.

[ndnchf]

John Kort was a wealth of information and very generous. He is missed by many of us. What is the groove size of your original '73? What size are those bullets?

[Babbott213]

John Kort was a wealth of information and very generous. He is missed by many of us. What is the groove size of your original '73? What size are those bullets?

When I slugged it it measured out to .433”. It’s a 5 groove barrel so it was a pain to measure. These bullets are .429” and a 20-1 lead with a hollow base. 40 grains might be a bit much for the hollow base, but I’m going to start there and see how it goes and from there I can work down. John sent these to me without me asking. He was a great man and it showed.


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[Babbott213]

The one on the left is missing the lube...

Also, is that Starline brass?
Why doesn't Starline have any shoulder for the 44/40? Even new cases are completely straight walled.

Wow, I totally missed that. Luckily they are still in the exact place so I’ll pull it and put some lube on it. Great catch!!

And yeah, not sure why Starline Brass seems to be straight wall. I’ve scratched my head on that one as well.


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[ndnchf]

I hope those bullets work out for you. 20:1 seems a little hard for an expanding base bullet, but the proof will be at the range. Let us know how it works out,

[Babbott213]

I hope those bullets work out for you. 20:1 seems a little hard for an expanding base bullet, but the proof will be at the range. Let us know how it works out,

Will do.


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[Babbott213]

Update. I was able to fire off the five rounds I loaded up for my 44-40. All five went off with a Bang! . But seriously, it felt good. I put 4 of the 5 over the Chronograph for a average of 1,307FPS. The fifth one I put on a plywood target at about 40 yards to see if it was key holing, as I’ve had some other rounds “not these bullets” that would key hole. Made a nice little round hole. It did seem to hit a little high and a little right, but I wasn’t really trying to hold a point of aim either.

Next is wait on my 50 bullets to arrive that are on back order from Buffalo Arms and then I’ll start loading for accuracy then.

I was also impressed with the Swiss 2F powder too. Loved it actually. My bore was much cleaner after five rounds unlike when I’ve ran Goex in the past.

Photos are from 3 of the shots. Done with slo-mo and then took frame shots. Only got one with a good fireball.








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[ndnchf]

That's good to hear! Yes, Swiss is nice powder, so is Old Eynsford. It has similar qualities clean burning to Swiss.

How large a bullet can you load and still chamber? I ask because there is a simple way to slightly expand a flat nose bullet like the standard Lyman/Ideal 427098. By using a sizing die of the needed diameter, say .433", a bolt and nut. Grind the end of the bolt flat. Put the undersize bullet in the sizing die. Insert the bolt with nut so the end of the bolt rests on the bullet and the nut just touching the top of the die. Then turn the nut up just a hair, maybe leaving a .010" - 020" gap to the top of the die. Now set this in an arbor press or vise and press the bolt in until it is stopped by the nut. As it presses in, it compresses and expands the bullet to conform to the .433" die. Measure the bullet to be sure it expanded fully to the die. If not adjust the nut and repeat. I've found this to work quite well for an oversize bore. You just need to know how large a bullet the chamber will handle. If I recall correctly, Winchester cases have the thinnest necks.

Here are a few photos of this bullet expander rig.

[smithnframe]

Why no wad between the powder and the bullet?

[Babbott213]

That's good to hear! Yes, Swiss is nice powder, so is Old Eynsford. It has similar qualities clean burning to Swiss.

How large a bullet can you load and still chamber? I ask because there is a simple way to slightly expand a flat nose bullet like the standard Lyman/Ideal 427098. By using a sizing die of the needed diameter, say .433", a bolt and nut. Grind the end of the bolt flat. Put the undersize bullet in the sizing die. Insert the bolt with nut so the end of the bolt rests on the bullet and the nut just touching the top of the die. Then turn the nut up just a hair, maybe leaving a .010" - 020" gap to the top of the die. Now set this in an arbor press or vise and press the bolt in until it is stopped by the nut. As it presses in, it compresses and expands the bullet to conform to the .433" die. Measure the bullet to be sure it expanded fully to the die. If not adjust the nut and repeat. I've found this to work quite well for an oversize bore. You just need to know how large a bullet the chamber will handle. If I recall correctly, Winchester cases have the thinnest necks.

Here are a few photos of this bullet expander rig.

I have some Olde Eynsford here to try. I bought an assortment of BP to try a few weeks ago.

The largest that I’ve loaded and chambered was a .433” from Desperado Bullets. It was a pain. I had to used my expander die for my .45 Colt to be able to get the bullet to fit.

That’s an interesting sizing contraption. Looks like it works though. I’m just trying to use a bullet that is soft enough and one that will expand to seat to the grooves. One day I plan on having a old Colt Army that is also chambered in 44-40 that I can shoot the same loaded ammo from. Just gotta find the needed cash without the wife finding out.


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[Babbott213]

Why no wad between the powder and the bullet?

From all I’ve read, a wad isn’t suggested with a hollow base bullet.


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[ndnchf]

20:1 alloy is fairly hard. 40-1 would likely give you better expansion to fill the grooves. I checked my 1890s Ideal handbook. It list 44-40 as using pure lead. I don't think that is necessary. but 40-1 would be fine.

[Babbott213]

20:1 alloy is fairly hard. 40-1 would likely give you better expansion to fill the grooves. I checked my 1890s Ideal handbook. It list 44-40 as using pure lead. I don't think that is necessary. but 40-1 would be fine.

I’m just testing different one’s currently. I’m thinking about buying a mold around this size and casting my own. If I do, I’ll probably go the pure lead route then. But I was told that these 20-1 bullets would give me the expansion needed, and from what I saw, they sealed to the grooves. Next is checking accuracy though.


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[Ajohns]

I don't know why Starline has their cases in a straight taper. But, I can say that it's nice because it will form to any of the millions of different chambers that have been cut through the years. This way, after firing you only need to size the neck, and leave the rest. Until a full resize is needed. This also makes it a good deal for when you need an oversized slug.