Fine line between clumping and under cured

[Whistler]

I use the silicone dry tumbling method (in short, spray the bullets with silicone spray, add a teaspoon of powder and shake, then pour on a mesh and bake).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf5C7x27Gmg

I am constantly trying to improve my results. I do about 20 lbs of bullets on one plate.
For big bullets like 350-500 grains I find that 25 minutes on 400 degrees will get all bullets with an even coat that is perfectly cured and withstands all tests and trials.
If I do the same to small bullets like 9mm, I will have one solid clump of glued together bullets. If I lower to 20 minutes I get almost no clumping, but will sometimes get flakes, meaning the coating is under cured. Raising the time to 21-22 minutes increases the risk of clumping.

Has anyone gotten satisfactory results with large piles of bullets in one baking? How do you find your sweet spot? Are you using different times and temps depending on bullet weight?


Answers like "less bollits", "stand them up" or other non constructive advises on the topic in question are friendly but firmly advised to some other threads, this is about volume baking.

[rototerrier]

I had no idea this silicone spray technique even existed. I'm going to have to look into this. I'm always interested in anything that will speed up my PC process.

[rancher1913]

dont fall for everything you see on you tube, follow the powder manufactures recommendations.

[rototerrier]

dont fall for everything you see on you tube, follow the powder manufactures recommendations.

No offense, but what do you mean? I've not seen any mfg recommendation that says to swirl bullets in plastic containers with airsoft bb's, but that's what's been working for me for years. Pretty sure we've already gone well outside the realm of mfg recommendation.

I'm just curious what the silicone adds to the equation. I've never been able to get good results without setting coated bullets upright on mats. I'd love to find a reliable bulk method.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

My experience is with Eastwood powders. I swirl in a #5 marked tub for about a minute, pour onto a hardware cloth screen and gently shake back and forth to remove excess powder. Using a nitrile glove I stand the boolits up on a teflon sheet in a baking tray. Preheat oven to 400f and bake for 20 minutes. I spray them In a tub with One Shot case lube before sizing.

This gives me perfect results. I have been doing 9mm, 357 and 44 mag boolits this way. My gas checked 30 cal. boolits work great with tumble lube in .308 and 30-30.

[Whistler]

I'm just curious what the silicone adds to the equation. I've never been able to get good results without setting coated bullets upright on mats. I'd love to find a reliable bulk method.

It makes any powder stick to the bullet without static or long tumbling with or without BBs. You just add the powder, shake a few seconds and you're done. I always do 20lb bullets on one tray (thats me in the video) and it is just lately I've been noting variances between bullet weights.

The method was originally from ElvisAmmo I think. He dipped a silicone sprayed bullet with pliers into the powder, shook it off and put it on a jig. It was the best way to get a thick coat for precision rifle shooting, and you could do half bullets if you had a bore rider section.

My modifikation is that I spray all bullets and tumble them with the powder, only problem is I seem to get too much powder and have a hard time seeing when that is, since it sticks no matter how much powder I add (to a limit, after a while it just lies on the bortom on the bucket, but then the coat is crazy thick).

I have shoot many thousand of these siliconed bullets, compete with them at the World Shoot and have also discussed them with Glen Fryxell, who says rhe silicone has no ill effect and that he has made lubes with silicone.

[rototerrier]

Very cool. I am going to give this a try. Thank you for the info!

[rancher1913]

just keep in mind the people that do the you tube videos do it for the money they make and most have no problem giving bad info so they can get a shock from the public and get more views, not saying the op is doing this, just saying use your common sense.

[rototerrier]

Wrong again.

Most folks never make a cent off yt, including myself.

[Conditor22]

Interesting method. Not to be a naysayer but there was A LOT of powder added for the amount of boolits

baking for 25 minutes is a good thing, baking at 302° F not so much.

I've never seen manufacturer specify baking at that low a temperature. (I really don't think the coating is getting a full cure)

I would like to see the coated bullets dry and up close

I would also like to see how they do with the smash test.

Put a little smokeless powder in a small container with a coated bullet and see what happens in a few weeks.

I very well could be way off. It's always interesting seeing a new method.
.
OP(Whistler) have you tried the "piglet method" check stickies in Coatings and Alternatives
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Piglet-Method

[cwlongshot]

just keep in mind the people that do the you tube videos do it for the money they make and most have no problem giving bad info so they can get a shock from the public and get more views, not saying the op is doing this, just saying use your common sense.

you are mistaken.
I like to provide information and hope I am helping someone... There is more to life then how Much $$ you can make Of someone.
I have hundreds of videos in utube for close to twenty years i never have made a penny...

Cw

[Shuz]

Whistler--What brand of silicone spray do you use, and where do you get it?

[Whistler]

Rancher, I've never received any money from Youtube. I do have the occasional sponsor for match equipment, but those videos are very clear about that intent and the key there is credibility and acountability.

Conditor22, yes it is a lot or powder, perhaps I could use less and see if the clumping stops. I dont know where you get 302 degrees, I bake mine at 350-400 according to the manufacturer.

Shuz, it is generic hardware store silicone spray.

[cwlongshot]

IMHO its a direct result of uneven silicone application.

I doubt you are even gonna be able to make a even application as ut will group at any grooves. Maybe a smooth sided bullet....


Cw

[RP]

Whistler the way I read your first post two things come to mind that I think factor in to the different results. 20 lbs of bullets is the amount for each batch smaller bullets will have more contact areas with each other then larger bullets dumped in a pile with smaller open spaces.
Based off if you fill a glass with large rocks until it is full or you fill it with sand I do not think this is the problem but could be is why I brought it up.

What I think the problem is for your method would be Mass based of cooking times changing the results and the smaller ones having a smaller window for a good batch. The larger bullets take longer for core temp to rise / small bullets reach it faster.

I found when I PC some receiver hitches and some other items that did not have the mass got two results hope this makes sense to you and helps but that is my two guesses good luck.

[Whistler]

IMHO its a direct result of uneven silicone application.

I doubt you are even gonna be able to make a even application as ut will group at any grooves. Maybe a smooth sided bullet....

Interesting thought, but I don't think so. In the video I spray a couple of bullets and add them to non-sprayed. I have since moved to spraying all bullets, it saves time and gets better results. My experience is that grooved bullets with less surface contact gets more even coats than smooth sided bullets made for PC, kind of in line with what RP wrote above.

One thing I have noticed in effect is that excess powder that can be blown away with a forceful breath may be a culprit in them sticking together. When putting the bullets on the mesh, it is easier to remove excess powder from fewer larger bullets, than with small bullets in large piles. I think the excess powder goes into the clumping, so perhaps just easing into it with lesser powder per batch is the way.

[El Greco]

This guy is baking at 305 degrees. At this temp they will be under cured.

[Whistler]

El Greco: What guy? If you mean in the video I posted it is I in the video. I bake at 180 degrees celcius in the vid.

[El Greco]

Sir, I was not talking about you. I was talking about the guy on the video. He said 150 Celsius which is 305 F. I have tried baking at those temps but I noticed paint flakes. Now I only bake at 400 F.

[cwlongshot]

You have asked for opinions to the reasons for the problems.

IMHO part and parcel to the issues IS THE QUANTITY your attempting.

Also the AMOUNT of powder your putting on your bullets. Some powders use more then others but even those I wouldn't use 1/4 of the powder you did on that batch of cast.

When the coating is complete. I take at least as much time sifting OFF EXCESS powder from the cast coated bullets. Powder flows to a even thickness WHEN BAKED proper time and temp.

Interesting the use of silicone here.

Have you tried smaller batches?

Single layer nets me nearly perfect bullets in some powders. Others require standing bullets to achieve same. Not all Powders are created equal.

CW