first boolit fail!

[guy_with_boolits]

First attempt at casting and loading cast boolits!

Did not go well. Although I think I know what it is.

Using LEE 200gn SWC 45ACP

Bullseye powder

Tumble alox

Beginner mistake: decided to seat bullet to factory-like OAL, which in this case, was 1.260 (but with a round nose)

That of course made no sense and rounds would not chamber in a 1911

So it would be easy if I could just seat the bullet deeper and it would chamber.

Problem is, I seem to need to go about .015" deeper than the minimum OAL specified by allian for bullseye with this boolit (1.19") if I want the round to chamber flush with the back of the barrel. Although really alliant doesn't specify this exact LEE mold/bullet..I am using their Lead 200gn SWC entry in their powder database as a starting point.

Maybe I dont actually need it to be flush?

Or maybe I can seat deeper than 1.19"?

What logic do I use to answer those questions?

Thanks for any help!!

Note: seems to me the SWC is about .060" shorter than the factory RN I was using. So apples to apples should be able to seat the SWC .060" lower without greatly effecting pressure (lead vs copper plated).

But what about going more like .080" lower?

Seems like if I drop a round in the removed barrel, its about .010" proud, but if I just push the back of the round in on the table, it seems to go flush pretttty easily. Not as easily as a copper plated RN, but pretty easy. Maybe it doesnt matter if its proud?

[Winger Ed.]

Fully seat it, then look to see if the last little bit of resistance is caused by it hitting the rifling.
If it is, I'd ease it back until it drops in like ya think it should.

I trust they are also sized at .452.
If not, that will could also explain why they are hitting the rifling for that last .010.

With a Lead boolit, you won't get into much trouble fine tuning the OAL unless you have some crazy powder charge.
If you aren't doing it already, I'd advise sizing them too, for that and other reasons.

[guy_with_boolits]

Fully seat it, then look to see if the last little bit of resistance is caused by it hitting the rifling.
If it is, I'd ease it back until it drops in like ya think it should.

I trust they are also sized at .452.
If not, that will could also explain why they are hitting the rifling for that last .010.

With a Lead boolit, you won't get into much trouble fine tuning the OAL unless you have some crazy powder charge.
If you aren't doing it already, I'd advise sizing them too, for that and other reasons.

They aren't sized, and honestly they aren't coming out of the mold perfect either. But it was my first casting session ever so I can probably improve that.

But let me ask you this...the case outer dimensions (with the crimped bullet inside) are identical to factory ammo as far as I can measure. There does not seem to be a bulge where the bullet is, even though its bigger than factory ammo (some were .455).

But, once its been compressed into the case, it must now be the same diameter as factory ammo, since the case is the same size. So that leaves only maybe 1 driving band that is still oversize by .002 to .003". That is very little to offer resistance to the rifling right? Do I really need to size just to get rid of that?

Its the driving bands hitting from what I can tell. They basically offer a square shoulder to the rifling so are the first thing that hits.

There does seem to be a space between the rifling and the the edge of where the case goes. Maybe they are hitting that "edge"? Its hard to tell!!

[BNE]

.


But, once its been compressed into the case, it must now be the same diameter as factory ammo, since the case is the same size. So that leaves only maybe 1 driving band that is still oversize by .002 to .003". That is very little to offer resistance to the rifling right? Do I really need to size just to get rid of that?
!

Short answer: YES. Sizing the bullets is highly recommended.

Semi autos are finicky. Take your gun apart. Drop a factory round into the barrel. Observe how far it goes in and how easily it goes in. If your bullet does not drop into the barrel the same way, it won’t work. This is the “plunk” test.

[Wayne Smith]

Yes, sizing is necessary. But - take a look at your chamber/barrel. If the rifling starts abruptly and there is essentially a shelf that the boolit hits you have no throat in the barrel. This is unfortunately typical any more. A PM to DougGuy on this board and the fix is in place. If you have any questions search for posts by DougGuy and you will see his knowledge base and expertise. I am far from the only one here who has had him work on my guns and have utmost confidence in him.

[frkelly74]

Sounds like all the common problems I encountered when starting out, almost exactly. Just keep tweaking things , size your boolits .452/ .451 and seat till they plunk. T here will be some boolits that will come out of your mold oversize and if you don't size, some will chamber but then one will come along that will almost chamber but not quite and you will have a jam. ,You might get your barrel throated as mentioned above. It is not at all like using factory ammo at first , any one can use factory ammo, you can get your loads to work properly but it will take some effort and that is why us do it your selfers like bullet casting. Keep on playing with it and you will have success.

[Larry Gibson]

If your Lee mould is a 6 cavity make sure you don't hold the sprue plate handle when filling. Doing so can pivot the bottom of the blocks open....that's how you get variable sized bullets like the .455 ones. Only hold the mould handles.

Also, as mentioned;

Size the bullets. A lee push through sizer will work fine. Follow lee's directions for lubing with LLA and follow the directions. Use only very light coats of LLA and let dry thoroughly between coats.

[onelight]

Remove your barrel and drop a factory load into it and notice how it feels sounds and looks when you drop the cartridge in , your case with seated bullet should be the same. I have shot the TL 200 grain bullet both sized and as cast but the shoulder of the bullet will barely show above the case mouth , at this point don't worry about measured OAL get a length that will drop in the barrel. Save this unprimed no powder case and bullet to adjust your seating And or crimp die when loading that bullet in the future.
With Bullseye start at 3.5 grains loading 5 cartridges and start working up a tenth of a grain at a time until your gun cycles properly like it should , and you like the way it shoots you will probably be between 4 and 5 grains when you are done.
You may know all this already but if you don't Thais is how you work up a load.
One of my Lyman books shows a similar bullet and that is where this start 3.5 grains Bullseye and max of 5 grains came from.
You will probably find a good range load t 4 to 4.5 grains. But at starting don't load more than 5 or so until you make sure they will cycle unless you enjoy clearing jams.
Hang in there this may be the only bullet you need for your .45 but if you are like the the rest of us you will wind up with more molds to try in the future

[Land Owner]

Yes sir. The 45 ACP SWC was my "first", but definitely not my last. Over time, for home protection I put my growing knowledge and resources into the Lyman 185 gr. "Devastator" as my 45 ACP boolit of choice - YMMV.

[mdi]

Just a couple thoughts; first you cannot use round nose bullet specs for a semi-wadcutter bullet. A glance in my Lyman 49th shows the OAL for a SWC (looks to be the same profile as the Lee) to be .040" shorter than that of a RN. Rule of thumb for 45 ACP SWC bullet seating is no more than 1/16" of the shoulder above the case mouth as a start, use the plunk test and disregard book OAL. If the cartridge does not plunk freely, try a few thousandths deeper seating to get a good plunk. I do not "crimp" any semi-auto cartridges, in the usual sense of the word, I use a taper crimp die to "deflare", straighten out any flare in the case mouth. Too much flare in the case mouth or too much crimp will effect chambering, aka; plunk.

As for sizing, many casters do not size Lee T/L bullets. But first, you need to know if your bullets need to be sized. Have you measured the diameter of the bullets? Are they fairly round? Bullets .003" to .004" over groove diameter can be fired safely if the cartridge will chamber. Fat bullets can swell the case too much to chamber freely. If the bullets are out of round they can be sized to remove the oval OD, which will also help poorly plunking rounds. Personally, I size all my cast bullets as I like to know all I can about my bullets, and knowing (measuring) my 45 ACP bullets are all .451"-.452" helps trouble shoot any problems that may come up...

[Burnt Fingers]

No all 200 gr SWC boolits are created equal. There are several different nose profiles.

SWC boolits should be seated so that there is about a thumbnails thickness of the shoulder above the case mouth.

[guy_with_boolits]

thanks everyone, heres some more info:

For test fitment what I have been doing is measuring how much the case protrudes from the barrel (barrel out of pistol).

As I had it in the beginning, it was sticking out a ridiculous amount (.060"+). This is because I used the same OAL as a RN, as I and others have mentioned.

A reloaded RN at about 1.265"~ sits proud maybe .010", but is easily pushed to be flushed. I would imagine the action cycling would have no problem making it flush.

My SWC seated to something like a 1.192" also sits about .010" proud, and is slightly more difficult to push flush, but I think it would probably still sit flush with normal action.

Beginner mistake: I did not even have my mold handles installed during casting!! Boy was that fun. So yes I probably had some mold openings. Although, if thats whats happening, shouldn't you see some big flashing on the boolits?

I definitely have some (not all) egg-shaped boolts, measuring .469" one direction and .450" the other.

However I've noticed that the deeper I seat the boolit, the more the exposed diameter shrinks. Makes sense if you think about it. As most of the bullet gets compressed round by the case/seater die, the less of the exposed part there is and it also gets forced circular. And even if the exposed part is still oversize, there is just less of it to matter/resist.

For Alox I used a table spoon of naptha and about 4 drops of alox in a glass jar for 30 boolits. Shook around for awhile then baked for 45 mins at 220F. Still SLIGHTLY tacky, but not enough to really notice or care about unless you are making an effort to detect it. I can barely see anything on the boolits except maybe some yellow spots where there was a bit more alox than normal.

My 1911 barrel does have a short (0.1"?) un rifled area before the rifling starts.

So I can certainly get a sizing die, however, I'd like to improve things as much as I can here with what I have first. I think if:

a) My less severely oversize/egged boolits do truly become circular and sized to 0.452" once they are seated up to the first driving band
b) Seating at slightly under the 1.19" OAL in the Bullseye spec does not cause pressure issues
c) There are not feeding problems because of SWC / short OAL

I may be in business.

[44MAG#1]

No one asked but let me add my 1/2 a cent worth. Here is what I do. I have a Kart Match barrel that has no throat, had it for years. When I find a seating depth for a particular bullet I plunk test in it. I seat the bullet far enough out so I know it WONT plunk. I STRAIGHTEN out the flare on the case so as to not create another problem in the plunk test. I try the cartridge and then seat SLIGHTLY deeper and try again. I keep doing that until the cartridge barely plunk fits then I go slightly deeper to give a CUSHION as to fitting to be on the safe side as to OAL. I record that OAL for that bullet. Then when I load that bullet I get the OAL measurement with dial calipers correct and load away.
I shoot Kimbers and Glocks in 45 Auto which have "long" throats in them so I KNOW I will be good on correct OAL. I had a RIA 45 Auto that had a "long" throat so it was good to go too.
I send no barrels to anyone to have throated because I work out OAL with a no throat barrel so I know I am good to go.
If you own more than one brand of 45 Auto you select the barrel with the SHORTEST throat to use for the plunk test. Not the longest throat.
Never assume anything in reloading including fitting cartridge to chamber. Especially with an autoloader.
Do this for every NEW style bullet you use in the future. Your future will be brighter for it.

[lar45]

First thing, get some handles on the mold. You will probably want to remelt your first batch of oval bullets.

Second thing, Naptha is a good thinner than evaporates readily, so make sure you have adequate ventilation when you are drying your lubed bullets. I normally just put a sheet of wax paper on an old cookie sheet, dump the lubed bullets onto it and set it out in the sun to dry.

Seating deeper can raise the pressure with the same bullet. If your SWC is shorter than the RN, it may not matter. What is important is the distance from the base of the case mouth, seating depth.
So that's why the posts above say to start at the beginning load and work up until you get the action to cycle reliably.
One of my 45acps will chamber and shoot almost anything, another only likes bullets sized to .451".
Don't rely on seating the bullet in a case to size it. It's probably still Oval. Pull a seated bullet and measure it to see.
I would not rely on the action cycling to mash the bullet into the rifling. Seat it deeper until the loaded round will fall freely into and out of the chamber, "plunk".

[onelight]

Another thing to keep in mind if they won't drop in as they should and you force the slide closed the bullet can stick in the barrel when you finally get the slide pulled back.
If you do not have a factory load to plunk test drop a resized case in the chamber with no bullet and see how it drops in your loaded rounds will be similar when they are like they should be. You can measure what you like but all you need is to seat that bullet deep enough to drop in so the case length is setting the head space not the bullet. After you get some ammo to safely and reliably work in your gun , if you want to experiment then is the time. Forget the OAL in the book unless your book shows loads for that exact bullet . If you start your work up at 3.5 grains of bullseye if every thing else is ok you will be safe . But get your bullets lined out first don't waste your time with bullets that are not cast reasonably well if your bullet has wings throw them back in the pot and keep going until you get some round ones when I started it seemed like I put more back in the pot than I kept , hang in there you can make better bullets than 90% of the commercial cast.

[mdi]

A reloaded RN at about 1.265"~ sits proud maybe .010", but is easily pushed to be flushed. I would imagine the action cycling would have no problem making it flush.

My SWC seated to something like a 1.192" also sits about .010" proud, and is slightly more difficult to push flush, but I think it would probably still sit flush with normal action.

I would not recommend allowing the bolt/slide to seat cartridge deeper than what they normally would "plunk to". Jamming the bullets into the rifling can raise chamber pressures dangerously. Measuring the distance the cartridge sticks out of your barrel is just academic, and not needed to fix your problem. Don't overthink this procedure as it is really simple; make your handloads fit your gun without forcing anything. Use the proper specs for the components you are using. Consult your reloading manual(s) for specific specifications of the component combinations you use.

Perhaps reviewing a copy of The ABCs of Reloading would help?

[jsizemore]

And start at the recommended starting load and work up till your slide locks open on the last round 100% of the time.

[Winger Ed.]

Beginner mistake: I did not even have my mold handles installed during casting!!

You're related to Chuck Norris aren't ya?
Nobody else is that tough.

[guy_with_boolits]

You're related to Chuck Norris aren't ya?
Nobody else is that tough.

my gloves got a workout

so heres my plan for tomorrow:

-from the batch I cast, I'm going to re-load a few with smaller loads, probably 3.2, 3.5, and 3.9. (right now they are all at 4.3) (this is bullseye)
-these few will also get OAL short enough so they are flush with the end of the barrel, so probably 1.89"
-I will also reseat all the other rounds to this length (with the 4.3 charge)

Then I will go shooting and see how the 3.2, 3.5 and 3.9 do. If they seem problem free as far as pressure signs (from the slightly below minimum OAL), I'll try a 4.5.

Hopefully at that point problem is solved!

I suppose another worthy experiment with this boolit would be to load several unprimered cases at varying OAL's to see what feeds and what jams..I might do that too

[Winger Ed.]

Good luck, but until you start sizing--- you'll continue to have problems, probably more than one.