What are your favorite high speed lead loads in 308 &30-06?

[Martin Luber]

Alloy, powder, velocity achieved, etc???

Other details?

I usually plunk along at 1600 with red dot, unique, or the like.

My first ventures into 2200 land. Too much?

Thanks !

[charlie b]

It depends. If you have a 10 twist that might be a little fast. You will need harder alloy and perfect bullets. Under 2000 and you'll be fine. If you have a 12 twist or slower then 2200 would be fine, maybe even 2400. Need a good lube for this.

[Kraschenbirn]

I've got (3) .308s and each has its own "best" boolit/powder combination at upper end (1950-2050 fps) velocities...and none of those shoot worth cat snot in my buddy's AR10. My suggestion is to grab a copy of a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and begin working up from the 'starting loads' for H4895, IMR4198, AA2015, and, maybe, IMR4350. Those are the powders where I've obtained my best results but I'm aware that others have achieved decent performance with some of the "RL" powders as well. Btw...I powder coat all my rifle stuff which can yield a 3%-4% increase in velocity over "book" numbers.

Bill

[Jack Stanley]

I made up a load for my 1903A3 using a 314299 , it shoots as good as ball and I'm happy with that . About fifteen BHN , some IMR 4831 , large rifle primer and a LC 76 match case . It was over two thousand the last I checked .

Jack

[ole_270]

Tested 3 powders in my old M51-L JC Higgins 308 with the Noe #315 clone last fall. Alloy was roughly 1.5 Sn, 3 Sb, water quenched out of the PC oven. Went up to 2450 or so with H4350 and Varget, 2250 or so with N202 and H4831sc. Ended up shooting 3 does with Varget at 2200 with short death runs and no bullet recoveries, even on the two that were shot dead on. Will probably try air cooled PC next.

[Shopdog]

My CDL '06 dotes on the Lee 309-150 with a little bit of attention to the nose bump on sizing. 50/50 lube just above GC,seated to a lite jam(touch). Backed by a cpl grains below starting JB data of Varget. Older 5* Redfield
4-12, has been getting it done quite nicely in the varmint fields. It's at the heavy end of the varmint rigs here. Old flat back stainless Savage116, '06 prefers a full dose of H4895 and a 173g Lyman. Few more '06's that aren't in rotation right now.

Not shooting the few 308's here that much anymore,preferring 7-08..... the '06's take care of the .30 cal nicely. The 7's also like Lee and Varget.

[Rainier]

Rifle: Model 70 Featherweight 30-06
Alloy: 95-3-2 (air cooled)
Mold: Lee 309-170-F opened to .311 and sized to .311 with gas check
Weight: 178 grains
Lube: Powder Coated
Powder: IMR 4227, 32.2 grains
COAL: 3.110 (just touching the lands)
Primer: Winchester LR
Velocity: 2160 fps
Accuracy: MOA at 100 yards (when I do my part)

[Martin Luber]

Running 4227 and mp5744 in 308, 311291 with gc, initially using 22 in both, getting 1867 area for speed, no leading, Lg pistol primer. No pressure signs. Going up a tad for next step.

[charlie b]

What twist barrel are you using, lube or PC?

I use Varget for most of my cast loads, but, IMR4198 and 4895 both worked well. Savage, 1:10 26" barrel.

My current loads for the .308 are:

Accurate 31-210E, 28.2gn Varget, Fed Match LR primers, powder coated. 1850fps and 4" at 300yd.

Lee C309-180, 30.2gn Varget, powder coated. 1950fps and 4" at 300yd.

RCBS 165SIL, 25.5gn IMR3198, lubed. 1800fps and 2" at 200yd.

I did go up to 2400fps with the Lee bullet (powder coated) but the groups opened up to 4" at 200yd.

And the plinking load is 7gn of Blue Dot with the Lee 180gn. 1100fps and 2" at 100yd.

[Larry Gibson]

HV cast bullet loading

Numerous others and I have worked bullets such as 311291, 311041 and several other cast bullets of the bore riding nose design every which way at higher velocity. Normally best accuracy comes in the 1700 – 1900 fps range as reported. That is within the RPM threshold for the 10” twist. You may or may not believe there is an RPM threshold but it’s what’s giving you larger groups as you increase the velocity and RPM above 1950 fps. Working different alloys, powders, sizing, GCs and lubes I was able to maintain 2 – 3 moa at 2200 – 2300 fps with the 311291 for consistent 10 shot groups at 100 yards. If you want to improve on that accuracy at or perhaps a little higher velocity I suggest you change bullet designs and pay particular attention to minute details when casting and loading.

Bullet; with the ’06 the ideal cast bullet design is one that has minimal lube groove depth with enough lube for the length of barrel. It should have a short nose with minimal ogive of not more than caliber length. The bullet should have a bearing length from the beginning of the ogive to the base of the GC. That bearing length should just fit within from the base of the cartridge neck to the beginning of the leade. Two designs fill those requirements in most ’06 chambers; the Lyman Lovern design 311466 and the LBT 150 gr. With either bullet design moa accuracy with 3 -5 shots is obtained with proper casting, sizing and loading in the 2200 – 2300 fps range if the rifle/shooter are capable with a 10” twist rifle. With either cast bullet such accuracy (1 – 1.5 moa w/10 shot groups) can be obtained at 2400 – 2500 fps with a 12” twist and 2600 - 2700+ fps is possible with a 14” twist.

[Note as of August 6, 2020; Since this was written we have learned a lot more about shooting naked and lubed cast bullets at HV, but the basics are here. I do a couple things differently now, actually just more refined. There are also a few newer bullet designs available especially for HV shooting. I highly recommend the NOE 310-165-FN “30 XCB”. It has proven to be an excellent HV bullet but does extremely well at “normal” cast bullet velocities. PC’d and PP’d bullets add another dimension.]

Alloy; I’ve found a strong yet malleable alloy of 18 – 22 BHN to work best. A hard brittle alloy with a high antimony content should be avoided. Lyman #2 alloy WQ’d out of the mould works very well up through 3000 fps.

Cast bullets; they should be visually inspected under a magnifying glass for any defects. If using a multiple cavity mould they should be weight sorted if they do not weigh the same from each cavity. Weight sorting is most often done incorrectly for what is needed for HV cast bullet shooting. A search should find my posts on how weight sorting should be done.

Gas Checks; bullet bases must be square and flat. If the sprue cut of is not even with the bullet base cut a sharp knife can cut it flat. GCs need to be soft so annealing them may be necessary if they are commercial. I use my own made from .015 brass shim stock. The GC should be a tight slip fit on the bullet shank. It should not be forced on and swage the flat bottom of the shank. [note; I have found the slip on GCs do not stay on with many HV loads and are detrimental to accuracy when they come off.] Thus I exclusively use Hornady crimp on GCs now. Even they can come off above 3000 fps but that’s outside the realm of this discussion. A GC seater (I use the Lyman on a 450 with a .311 H die) should be used to squarely seat the GC and crimped on in a separate step before sizing/lubing. I then lube in an H&I die of the same size as the “as cast” bullets. The GC’d and lubed bullets are then push sized the bullets through a Lee .310 or .311 sizer after.

Bullet lubes; I’ve run multiple tests at HV with various commercial lubes. I consistently get the best accuracy with Javelina lube followed by 2500+. At high velocity/RPM the bullet lube needs to spin off very quickly and completely. Hard lubes do not and small chunks of lube sticking to one side of a cast bullet will unbalance it with inaccuracy being the result. Softer lubes work best at HV and I’ve yet to find one that betters Javelina.

Cases; should be “match prepped”, well fire formed, neck sized with .002 neck tension, with uniform neck thickness.

Powders; I’ve had best results with AA4350, RL19 and H4831SC. If loading density is below 80% I use a dacron filler.

Primers; I’ve also ran numerous tests with different primers. “Soft” primers will lower velocity and RPM with these slower burning powders. Accuracy will appear to be better but it is the lower velocity/RPM from such. Load all to the same velocity/RPM and it’s hard to pick a “best” primer. I mostly use WLRs because that’s what I buy in bulk. Magnum level primers are not needed in the .308W or ’06 with these powders and give higher SD/ESs which isn’t good for accuracy.

There you have my advise based on “been there, done that” numerous times. My best advise if you want jacketed bullet accuracy at jacketed bullet velocity in a .308W or ’06 is to get a quality 14” twist barrel 26”+ long and follow the advice I’ve given. You will be amazed at how easy accuracy at HV then comes with cast bullets, even with 311291 and 311041. Here's 10 shots in 1.8 moa at 500 yards from my 14" twist .308W with the 30 XCB.

Attachment 265831

Or, if you’re really interested you can build a HV cast bullet rifle. Here’s 11 shots (supposed to be 10 shot group but I lost track of the number of shots) in 5.9” at 600 yards from my 30x60 XCB shooting the 30 XCB cast bullet at 2900+ fps.

Attachment 265832

[MT Gianni]

A near case full of WC860 and a 311466, Saeci 315 or 311284 lubed with an excellent lube. All gave no trouble hitting a 12" gong at 400 yards.

[whisler]

How does the 311467 rank as compared to the 311466? I have that mold but have never cast rifle bullets... yet.

[Martin Luber]

Thank you Mr Gibson!

[yeahbub]

I can comment on the 311467, since I used to shoot that one in a .30-06, 1:10 twist. I cast it of Linotype, gas checked/sized .309 and lubed with MTL (a red synthetic wax loaded with microparticulate Teflon) and loaded over book loads for jacketed of the same weight, in the 2500+ fps range. This was for high-power matches and seated to firm contact in the leade. It was more accurate going slower, but this was early in my cast boolit adventures and I was experimenting with Wilke gas checks, tinned brass .312 x .040" washers or tinned copper wire coils in the first full-size driving band in the mold to have better support up front. This worked very well and some attempts were superbly accurate < 1MOA, but it wasn't consistent. The 10-cent brass washers worked best, but cast is supposed to be cheaper than jacketed. The wire was great - when the ends of the loop were in a groove, rather than on a land or on the edge of one. The Wilkes? Well, the gas checks had to be punched on center (I had no tooling for this) and they were taller than the .040 thick driving band cavity in the mold. I gave up on that early.

Cast of WW's, quenched or air cooled and kept at or near 2000fps, it was much easier to get accurate performance.

[whisler]

Thanks for the comments on 311467.

[waco]

Rem 700 in .308
30 xcb 90/6/4 water dropped 18bhn
H414 powder
2600fps
1:10 twist
2 moa accuracy out to 500 yards