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Thread: 30 cal 175gr @ 1700 FPS enough for white tails?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    30 cal 175gr @ 1700 FPS enough for white tails?

    Is a 30 cal 175gr boolit @ 1700 FPS enough for white tails?

    Background— my 12 year old daughter is wanting to hunt deer for the first time in the upcoming youth season. I don’t have a youth rifle per se or a caliber that I see recommended often (243, 7mm-08,etc.).

    My daughter is 12, about 5’7 and average build. No real experience with rifles, but she has shot some. She’s smart and interested.

    What I do have is a good load in my Ruger 30-06 M77– it will put the Lee 309 170 in a 2 in circle at 100 yards all day long. It recoils mildly and is a pleasure to shoot. I chronographed this load and it’s a little over 1700 FPS. These are actual weight of about 175 gr and are pure WW, water cooled.

    I think this is enough boolit / velocity to take a whitetail, but don’t have much experience with it on game (but I have shot a lot of paper with this).

    Obviously I want her to have a great experience and take a deer quickly and humanely, but I have to balance that her being able to practice and being comfortable with the rifle / load.

    I think we’ll be able to get a shot 50 yards or less based on my experience in this spot.

    We’ve got plenty of opportunity for her to practice with this before the season. And I know shot placement is everything...

    Thoughts?


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  2. #2
    Boolit Bub
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    Oct 2018
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    For comparison. The original 30 WCF (30-30) load pushed a 160-grain bullet 1,970 fps. So at reasonable range and with proper bullet placement I would expect it to be fine

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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Jul 2009
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    Yes. That is very near what I have used for several whitetail in my 30Remington. 31141 96/2/2 at 1730 was my load, the 170lee is close. Only thought is I would air cool the hunting bullets, quenched for practice is fine. Maine thing is you need to get her close, 50 sounds like a good max. Even if she can pop coke cans at 300 and clover leafs at 100! Shooting her first deer needs to be close. I fought a half scale printed deer target, picture of the whole deer for archery. Glue it to a cardboard, do not put an aiming point. The ability to judge where the heart and lungs are, at different angles, without a “mark” is what you want to teach. Live deer don’t have orange stickers and there is no lead sled in the woods. Practice on this with a 22 is fine, but go to the 06 before season. Good luck and make good memories.
    Last edited by rking22; 08-01-2020 at 06:22 PM.
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


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    I agree on air cooling the bullets for hunting but everything else sounds fine. She is a tall 12 year old. Probably no need for a youth stock for her.
    Good Luck and Good Hunting to her,
    Rick

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Oct 2013
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    ive shot a deer lengthwise 80yds ish with the same lee 170 at 1700, ~2% antimony and tin, air cooled. and recovered with minimal expansion. nose blunted to about 40 cal. it didnt go far because it broke the thigh bone at the end of wound path. if that was what i used again id make it soft as possible. like paper patched pure lead or 2 alloy soft point type casting for a bit better results.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by bmortell View Post
    ive shot a deer lengthwise 80yds ish with the same lee 170 at 1700, ~2% antimony and tin, air cooled. and recovered with minimal expansion. nose blunted to about 40 cal. it didnt go far because it broke the thigh bone at the end of wound path. if that was what i used again id make it soft as possible. like paper patched pure lead or 2 alloy soft point type casting for a bit better results.
    What powder/cartridge were you using to get there?

    I'm thinking of paper patching a ranch dog in pure plus a touch of tin about the same velocity with 2400 powder and an '06

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  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by John McCorkle View Post
    What powder/cartridge were you using to get there?

    I'm thinking of paper patching a ranch dog in pure plus a touch of tin about the same velocity with 2400 powder and an '06
    same stuff. 30-06 20gr 2400. might of been closer to 1800mv but my shot was near 100yds so kinda balances out to match the OP. but ya i think rifle calibers like this with impact velocitys 15-1600 can use very soft lead for broadside deers. 10 hardness is too much imo. it seemed good in my water testing but not on actual results.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master


    richhodg66's Avatar
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    I'd go with a much softer, more malleable alloy than water quenched wheel weights, that sounds like a pencil entry and exit and long tracking job to me.

    If she is well enough practiced to place shots accurately, it should work just fine.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Your velocity is plenty but imo you alloy to hard. Here’s a good read for you on my first three deer with imo to hard of alloy. Your alloy choice will be like shooting a deer with a FMJ or an arrow with a field point. Long frustrating tracking and zero blood trails will be in your future with WQ COWW alloy unless a head, neck, or backbone shot it taken...and I’m not a big fan of these shots being I’ve seen a lot of wounded deer running around with poor shot placements aiming for these areas. You alloy choice would be good for braining elephants.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...my-devastators!!!

    I would suggest 16:1 pewter and pure and a second choice of 50/50 AC COWW and pure lead. My 16:1 mix is 7.8 BH and my 50/50 mix is 10.4 BH. Use the softest alloy your gun will shoot accurately. They way you will get some expansion for good size entry and exit holes for blood trailing.

    Here’s a 263 grain, 16:1 hollow point I shot out of my 77/44 at 1600 FPS. I found it next to a rock buried in my my dirt back stop at 25 yards. It weighed 174 grains and expanded to 3/4”. It still weighed after expansion almost as much as my favorite jacked deer bullet after expansion...180 grain core loct out of my 30-06. I’m sure a deer’s shoulder bone and ribs are softer then my dirt back stop or the rock it stoped on so I’m guessing more weight retention and less expansion when shooting thin skinned game with this soft 7.8 BH alloy at 1600 FPS. Also take into consideration your using a solid cast boolit VS my hollow point so you’ll will probably have less expansion then I did with my soft alloy.







    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 08-02-2020 at 09:23 AM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    soft lead boolit is a devastating round.... deer are easy to kill... i only use something harder when shootin at bear...
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    rkinig22 said it all. Softer - air cold - boolit and realistic targets. Spend lots of time at the range and build her confidence. Shot placement is absolute in the question of humane hunting. Good on you for bringing your daughter into ethical hunting. Your load is more than adequate. Bigger - better - faster isn't always the answer.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master



    missionary5155's Avatar
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    I hope no one I know is ever thwaped with a soft cast caliber .30 slug chugging along at 1700 fps. That is near 40% more zap than the 30-30 loaded with BP could think about doing and it did (still does) alot !!!
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy 444ttd's Avatar
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    my 30-40 krag does a 165gr(173gr on scale) ranch dog with h4198 going 1930fps. it is a 10 lead to 1 tin or 12bhn+/-. my son has shot a doe with it at 173 yards(laser range finder thingy) and i have shot a doe at 150+/-yards. we have killed 9 or 10 deer under 50 yards. they are all drop right there(drt). even the "long range" deer.

    btw, my youngest brother's girlfriend(guessing she weighs 110lbs) luvs to shoot my 444 marlin(300gr fn gc going 1600+fps) and my 35/30-30(200gr fn gc going 1700fps+). the best thing for recoil is take them to a bench, load up the gun with "recoilless" ammo and let her fly. the first shot you don't count. she be doing the "holding on gun, closing her eyes, praying to God that it doesn't hurt" and more. by round 5, she be smiling and says "can i shoot some more?"
    Last edited by 444ttd; 08-02-2020 at 01:43 PM.
    "The religion of KE: proposed by the ignorant, and parroted by the unknowing" - MikeG

    ​“Einstein's relativity work is a magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant people take for a king... its exponents are brilliant men but they are metaphysicists rather than scientists.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  14. #14
    Boolit Master


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    If you decide to change the alloy, verify the load is still accurate and shoots to the same POA. It may not matter at 50 yards but why have that doubt.

    Another option is to buy some 125 gr jacketed bullets made for hunting with the .300 BO and run them at 2000-2200 FPS. For $25 you will have a dependable and accurate bullet. I bet you will have a good load after testing less than 10 5 shot groups and still have half a box of bullets left.

    Wounding an animal is never good. Your current alloy seems too hard IMHO. Your daughters first deer should not be the picture of a deer gasping for life as you walk up. Consider waiting 20 minutes to approach the downed deer....but you likely know that.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    If you decide to change the alloy, verify the load is still accurate and shoots to the same POA. It may not matter at 50 yards but why have that doubt.

    Another option is to buy some 125 gr jacketed bullets made for hunting with the .300 BO and run them at 2000-2200 FPS. For $25 you will have a dependable and accurate bullet. I bet you will have a good load after testing less than 10 5 shot groups and still have half a box of bullets left.

    Wounding an animal is never good. Your current alloy seems too hard IMHO. Your daughters first deer should not be the picture of a deer gasping for life as you walk up. Consider waiting 20 minutes to approach the downed deer....but you likely know that.
    Agreed with above, I caught the Hornady gmx 110 grains on sale and use them for hunting whitetail exclusively.. they perform excellently in 300 BLK. Dead nuts accurate and beautiful expansion and penetration.

    Discreet ballistics and their supersonic division 'hotline munitions' is delivering some fantastic solid expanders for 300blk too...check them out. Only subsonic expander I would recommend for deer in 300 BLK.

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  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    I shot a cull buck at 40-50 yards with a Lee 150gr flat nose at circa 1800 fps.(30-30)Just air cooled wheel weight alloy. Through both shoulders and DRT. I'm sure the meplat helped. I've since developed loads with softer alloy for all my CB guns. Deer aren't hard to kill if you hit them right the first time with whatever you are using. And Close range makes it way more exciting.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check