735 pumpkin balls

[littlejack]

Maybe that's because the barrel bulges and gives more room for the pressure to build up.

[littlejack]

Ok guys, I cleaned the bore on the 870 yesterday. It had lot of lead build up. Starting at the chamber end, and going about half way down the bore. The regular bore brush was making powder out of it, so I run some Hoppes down the bore and let it soak a while. Still wasn't coming out very well, so I wrapped the brush with Chore Boy. Yep, scrubbed it right out. I've been lubing around the perimeter of the balls at the equator about 1/2" wide with Lee Liquid Alox. Didn't really see any sense of lubing the whole ball. So, I've fired around 45 balls in total. Anyone have a better way to lube that might stop, or at least cut down on the leading issue?

[longbow]

So far I haven't had any leading issues in my smoothbore or in the borrowed rifled gun though it only got 15 rounds through it IIRC... and these were naked RB's but ACWW so reasonably hard.

If you are using soft lead it may be a whole different situation.

Something I have noticed is that on a few recovered RB's the "belt" at the equator was skewed a bit indicating that the RB's were rotating as they entered the bore. Possibly hitting the side of the forcing cone or maybe picking up a bit of rotation with uneven crimp opening or? But they obviously had some rotation entering the bore. Are you using COW. cornmeal or grits under the ball? That seemed to help my loads.

So, about lube... Maybe tumble lubing the whole ball would make sure no naked lead contacts the bore. Or using a lubed felt wad under the ball to ensure lubed bore with each shot. I've read of people rolling the RB's under a file to roughen them then tumble lubing. That would raise some "teeth" to hold lube to make sure it is where you need it.

A lube cookie might work if placed under the ball too. It should get squished out to the hull when the RB is seated and blow by should carry some up around the RB as it transits through the gap from hull/forcing cone to bore. And yes, even with plastic gas seals there is blow by, in my experience anyway.

Powder coating should work too but is another process.

All speculation on my part though. Just thoughts.

Longbow

[Cap'n Morgan]

Anyone have a better way to lube that might stop, or at least cut down on the leading issue?

Maybe try tumbling the balls with Molykote? Powder-coating supposedly works wonders, but I have no experience with it.

[GBertolet]

I found that wrapping the RB's in plumber's teflon tape works great. A 6-7 inch strip, stretched around the RB. I also powder coated some, but haven't tried them out yet.

[littlejack]

Will try the COW first for better support. The 8 point crimp is somewhat off center. I really didn't want to get into roll crimping, although I really like the way the loaded rounds look. I have 1/8" wool from my black powder days. If it comes to that, I can make lube cookies. I can also tumble lube the entire ball, even though I really dislike the LLA. I'm really tying to keep this endeavor simple. If the accuracy is there for a dozen rounds, I can deal with some leading.

[megasupermagnum]

Just tumble lube in the Alox, it does not get any simpler. If one coat isn't enough, do two coats. Thin coats are key.

[gpidaho]

Hello all. It's been a while since my last shotgun outing. Old man health problems have been holding me back. Old age is a female dog! Anyway, made it out to the range today with my Trapper II heavy barrel 12ga and some round ball loads. Very pleased with the results. Fiocchi 2 3/4 new hulls, 36gr Blue Dot, 12X12 gas seal, 10mm waxed fiber wad, .165 nitro card, powder coated .735 round ball, plastic overshot cut from a water bottle cap and a roll crimp. At 65 old man steps the first three cut a ragged hole. Then the next five, four in 2 1/2 inches and one high flyer about 3 inches above. I know, without pics it didn't happen. Somehow I've lost my ability to get a picture to post. Anyway, this load was very comfortable to shoot in this heavy barreled shotgun, not at all like those 45gr. Blue Dots with the paradox slugs.. Gp

[littlejack]

Gp, that's darn good shootin. I may be overthinking this process, but I was leary of the overshot wad/disc on the ball, as I thought it might shift to one side and get in between the bore and ball. Has anyone ever heard of this happening. I figured if it worked, I would get a better eight point crimp.

[gpidaho]

Thanks littlejack. It felt good to be out at the range again. I didn't worry about the overshot as the Trapper has a very thick barrel ( ten gauge heavy barrel bored 12 gauge.) If it did get sideways, I believe it would just be like a cut wad. Didn't seem to cause a problem. It helps me get a better (more square) crimp. Gp

[megasupermagnum]

An overshot card is no danger. gpidaho, that must be the old NEF Tracker II, the precursor to the Ultra slug hunter. The H&R Tracker II is a very thin barreled gun, barely turning in 5 1/2 pounds. If you shot those in the H&R, you would be seeing stars right now.

I had better get back out there with the full bore balls. I'll try some higher powder charges again and see how they do.

[gpidaho]

Correct MSM. The shotgun is marked New England Firearms Pardner Tracker II Plus and it is a heavy gun. I wouldn't enjoy shooting a 5 1/2 pound shotgun with some of my slug loads. I fired a 50gr. Blue Dot Buckshot load out of my Stevens single shot ONCE It brought me down one one knee with thoughts of permanent damage. Gp

[littlejack]

Ahhhhhh, the self inflicted abuse we cause ourselves. Lol

[dsh1106]

littlejack

I don't use an overshot card with the .735 RB, I roll crimp directly down onto the ball, almost looks like a factory round. You should give it a try.
Here re some pics of mine, the ones with the clear overshot cards are the .662 round ball.

[gpidaho]

Scott: What roll crimp tool are you using on those loads? I have the Lyman you sent me, both of the BPI tools and a couple of Russian roll crimpers. The problem that I encounter is that the center of the crimp tool hits the round ball and some slugs before the crimp is tight. Gp

[megasupermagnum]

The best fix if the roll crimp tool hits the slug, is to remove wadding so the slug sits deeper. I fold crimp mine, and do not use an overshot. The little hole in the center used to bug me, but now I kind of appreciate that it easily allows me to ID that as a slug. Overshot cards help if it bugs you. I've also used buffer over the top of the ball, which works ok too, but any imperfections allow the buffer to run out. Cork and felt wads work really well as an overshot too.

[gpidaho]

Well, I'm going to load up a box or two of the loads I've mentioned above. " Inferior" cases over shot card and all they shot very well out of my shotgun and had very tolerable recoil. YMMV. Gp

[littlejack]

Scott
I'm going to do some more loading and testing. If the fold crimp poses me a problem, I may try the roll crimp. The 6 point crimp of the Win. Super-X cases looked really nice, but I ran out of those cases. The WAA cases with the 8 point crimp, not at all what you would call real nice. But as MSM said, with the fold crimp theres the hole in the center for identification. I've been setting the ball with the sprue on the bottom. Maybe if I set the sprue at the top, the flat will give the crimp a nice place to bottom out on.

[dsh1106]

Scott: What roll crimp tool are you using on those loads? I have the Lyman you sent me, both of the BPI tools and a couple of Russian roll crimpers. The problem that I encounter is that the center of the crimp tool hits the round ball and some slugs before the crimp is tight. Gp

Gp

I'm using a Lyman roll crimper.
There are to types that Lyman produced, the early version has a center which protrudes out that was used to push against the overshot card and hold the load down during the crimping process. The newer style has a concave cup which will rub against the ball or slug when the crimping process is completed.

If you're hitting the slug or RB with the crimping head before the everything is tight, try shortening the wad stack up or cut your hulls a little longer. From my experience you have to have 3/8" from the top of "load" to the end of the hull. Sometimes 7/16" will work depending on the wall thickness of the hulls you're using.

I've attached pictures of both styles.
Scott

[GBertolet]

I have the Ballistic Products roll crimper. Works fine. I feel that using a roll crimp, provides extra resistance unfolding the crimp, allowing pressures to rise more quickly, giving a cleaner burn with slow burning powders. It also aids in uniformity of ballistics, over the fold crimp. That's my opinion anyway.