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Thread: Mid-power (NOT Powderpuff) loading for the .500 S&W Magnum

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance John Ross's Avatar
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    Mid-power (NOT Powderpuff) loading for the .500 S&W Magnum

    I regularly get requests for load data from people who want to load the .500 Smith & Wesson to less than top levels, or for bullet weights that aren't listed. Apparently, many of these people seem terrified of constructing a load for any bullet that is not found in a powder company's manual. Before I get into specifics, let me give you some general rules that should stand you in good stead.

    First of all, when we are talking about loads which are nowhere near maximum, exact bullet weight is not important. If the bullets from your mold weigh, for example, 410 grains, there aren't any 410 grain bullets listed in any powder company's manual. No problem. Feel free to use data for any slightly heavier bullets that are commercially available and for which there is published data, such as the 440 grain Cast Performance offering. You cannot get in trouble doing this unless your bullet has a much deeper seating depth than the one in the loading manual. (An example would be if your 410 grain bullet is a full wadcutter and you load it so that the entire bullet is below the mouth of the case.) Compare the loading manual's OAL with yours to double check.

    Second, there are certain powders that I WILL NOT use in the 500. Chief among these are the fast pistol and shotgun powders frequently used in the .38 Special, .45 Auto, etc. They are ill-suited to the massive case capacity of the .500 S&W. The powder that merits special mention is the one that I will not allow in my home: Titegroup. EVERY .500 that I have personally examined that was blown up (six so far) was blown up with Titegroup.

    Third, don't be afraid to try rifle powders normally associated with cartridges such as the .223 or .308 in your .500. Take a sized case and hold your bullet next to it with the mouth of the case even with the crimp groove. Note where the base of the bullet is, and put powder in the case up to that level. Then seat and crimp the bullet, and see how you like the load.

    If doing this worries you, because you've never seen a load for the .500 using a rifle powder in any loading manual, think about this for a moment: there are probably 50 or more powders that are safe to use in almost every rifle caliber, but you won't see them in loading manuals because many of them will not give the results that most people want. Most people don't want to use a powder that cannot give factory level performance. As an example, you will never see 4350 listed in any manual for loading the .223. This is not because 4350 is unsafe in that caliber, but because a case full of 4350 under a 55 grain bullet will only give about 2600 FPS in a 24 inch barrel, at a pressure of 30,000 PSI. Most .223 shooters want more speed than this, and it's likely that 4350 would not generate enough port pressure to cycle the action of an AR-15. However, in a bolt gun, this load might prove to be very accurate and exactly what a small game hunter might want.

    Similarly, using fast rifle powders such as 4198 or Reloder-7 in the .500 may give you just what you want. I have tried many of the powders in this burning rate range, and the one that has impressed me most is BLC-2. This powder shows outstanding uniformity in the .500, with standard deviations in the low single digits. H322 has also proven to be an excellent choice.

    Let me give you an interesting example of four different rifle powders in the 500. The slowest powder I have used to date is H335. Under my short shank 510 grain Sledgehammer bullet that only has .300"of shank in the case, 57 grains is all that will fit. This load gives 1240 FPS. A 510 at 1240 is almost double the power of the .44 Magnum, but nowhere near maximum in the .500. It's a great load and I like shooting it.

    Leaving the powder measure on the same setting, and filling the hopper with another ball powder, BLC-2, we get the same 57 grain charge, but the velocity goes up to 1305 FPS. Another great load.

    With the less dense extruded powder 4895, the measure throws 45 grains, and this gives 1240 FPS, the same as the 57 grain charge of H335.

    Finally, switching to the faster 4198, the measure throws another 45 grain charge, but velocity goes up to 1435 FPS.

    All four of these loads are at 100% loading density, all are very powerful but well below maximum, and all are safe. Remember that I am using bullets of my design with long noses and short shanks to give the maximum net case capacity. If you use bullets of the same weight with shorter noses and longer shanks, you will not be able to get as much powder in the case and your velocities will be somewhat lower, but the loads will be just as safe.

    Two powders that have come on the market in recent years should be of particular interest to .500 shooters. These are CFE-BLK from Hodgdon and MP-300 from Alliant. I haven't had the time to develop hard data with either of these powders, but reports have been coming in that show great promise. First, if you want to use either of these powders, start with any .500 data using H-110 or 296. These new powders both appear to be about 5% to 7% slower than H-110, so that will be a safe place to start. Second, it appears that these powders may not have the squib issues of H-110 when loaded to pressures below 30,000 PSI. That could open up a whole new world of loads for shooters who want ammo that is below the factory full strength offerings, but far above what you can get with TrailBoss.

    As a final note, a powder that is almost ideally suited for .500 shooters is unfortunately now discontinued, and that is 4759. This bulky powder, beloved by many shooters of the old black powder buffalo cartridges such as the .50-110, has a burning speed similar to H-110 or 296, but takes up more case capacity and does not have the squib issues when loaded below certain pressure levels or used in subzero weather. You cannot overload a .500 (in a Smith & Wesson revolver) with this powder unless you use bullets made of something that is considerably denser than lead. The reason for this is that filling the case to the base of the bullet results in a safe pressure level with any weight bullet, because heavier bullets reduce the usable case capacity, and you can't get enough 4759 in there to create an overload with any round that will fit in the cylinder and still let you close it. If you can find any cans of this stuff, grab them.

    A while ago, I suggested making a table of all the bullets you .500 shooters are using, with weights and shank lengths, so that I could make loading recommendations for various desired power levels. As I recall, only two people responded. I'll make the offer again: If you would like me to suggest loads in a specific power range for the bullets you are using in your .500, send me the specs.

    Hope all of this is of some use.

    JR
    Last edited by John Ross; 07-29-2020 at 09:53 AM. Reason: grammar & clarity
    JR--the .500 specialist

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy okietwolf's Avatar
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    Have you ever run any FFG holy black thru the 500? Or if you want "fast burning" 3Fg....
    Quando omni flunkus, moritati

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance John Ross's Avatar
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    God, no.
    JR--the .500 specialist

  4. #4
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    AL8 bulks up nicely in the 500 Smith. Of course it’s long discontinued. I’ve been shooting 4227, loads in the mid to upper twenties. Good accuracy with low standard deviation. Four hundred grain bullets and up are what we shoot. Also use large rifle primers, large pistol mostly work but not something to rely on.
    Mine is the four inch blaster. The five inch seems to be perfect. I keep saving money and then some dopey thing happens that needs money.
    I have tried CFE - BLK, bulks nicely with medium power level loads.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Thank you SIR for a GREAT and logical post....

    Was wondering how much unburned powder you get with something like H335...

    As to my mid-range loads, I have a 4" S&W 500 and a 20" TC Encore barrel. Only weight bullets I use are of 350 grains:
    NOE Mold
    Hornady XTP
    Sierra HP
    Speer FP
    Berry's Plated

    The Berry's plated is used with 18.0 grains of UNIQUE. By using 18.0 grains one will notice a double charge. Velocity with the plated bullet is 1060 fps. Lots of fun, modest recoil and knocks a bowling pin into the next town...

    All the others get 20.0 grains which run 1240 fps. Recoil is still very manageable and very accurate.

    I don't think I would bother running rifle powders in my short 4, really 3" barrel but may work out well in the Eccore...

    Thanks again for the great post...

    Bob

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    The slower powders will work better with heavy boolits like 500gr+ and may give better accuracy because of the 100% load density but remember that slower powders will make a 500 painful to shoot as far as ears go h335 will more than likely give a flash bang effect i know it will in my 45-70 bfr where as the faster powders give a more pleasant crack instead. As far as black id go with fffg not ffg
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  7. #7
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    John, GREAT to hear from you !
    I bought one of the 5" from you about 6-7 years ago, shot everything from earth shakers to mouse farts out of it.
    I would be very interested in mid range loads. I just can't take many of the earth shakers any more, but I still like punching half inch holes in stuff.
    I have an NOE mould with 4 different weights of your bullet and a MiHec that throws a solid or HP about 425g.
    I'll post the specs of the Mihec as soon as I can get some measurements.
    Cogno, Ergo, Boom

    If you're gonna be stupid, don't pull up short. Saddle up and ride it all the way in.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance John Ross's Avatar
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    What pressure level and/or velocity level are you looking for? I also need bullet weight and base-to-crimp groove measurement. It wouldn't hurt to list the powders you have on hand, so you don't have to go buy something new,

    JR
    JR--the .500 specialist

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    John,
    I have your design bullet from an NOE group buy cut for 450, 500, 550, 600g (pretty cool to have 4 diff weights in one mould !) And your load data for same - GREAT info !
    My MiHec mould throws a 400g bullet that is 0.440" base to crimp groove (.795 OAL) Has HP pins too !!!!
    I guess I'm looking for what would be called 70-80% loads; well past 44 mag - just not full tilt nuclear.
    I tend to stock 296 and RL7 for the most part, but not adverse to buying a pound of anything.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    520g your design, 400g MiHec, and for giggles - 300g full WC HP
    Cogno, Ergo, Boom

    If you're gonna be stupid, don't pull up short. Saddle up and ride it all the way in.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okietwolf View Post
    Have you ever run any FFG holy black thru the 500? Or if you want "fast burning" 3Fg....
    The .500 could be fun in a single shot rifle with black (but loading without that brass cartridge case expands the powder capacity into something a lot more useful).

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance John Ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger1911 View Post
    John,
    I have your design bullet from an NOE group buy cut for 450, 500, 550, 600g (pretty cool to have 4 diff weights in one mould !) And your load data for same - GREAT info !
    My MiHec mould throws a 400g bullet that is 0.440" base to crimp groove (.795 OAL) Has HP pins too !!!!
    I guess I'm looking for what would be called 70-80% loads; well past 44 mag - just not full tilt nuclear.
    I tend to stock 296 and RL7 for the most part, but not adverse to buying a pound of anything.
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	265591

    520g your design, 400g MiHec, and for giggles - 300g full WC HP
    Need base to crimp groove for the 300 grain bullets. For the 400 grain Mihec, all loads 85%-100% loading density:

    37.0 Gr. Reloder-7 1210 FPS 25,000 PSI
    34.4 IMR4198 1173 FPS 25,000 PSI
    38.1 Accurate 2200 1164 FPS 25,000 PSI
    34.6 Hodgdon 4198 1156 FPS 25,000 PSI

    30.2 Vihtavuori N110 1307 FPS 30,000 PSI
    35.7 Vihtavuori N125 1278 FPS 28,000 PSI
    27.7 Accurate 1680 1263 FPS 30,000 PSI
    39.0 Accurate 2200 1200 FPS 27,000 PSI

    36.0 WW296 or H110 1406 FPS 35,000 PSI
    39.5 Accurate 1680 1338 FPS 35,000 PSI
    33.0 Accurate 5744 1337 FPS 35,000 PSI

    You'll probably get unburned powder with the 4198 loads at that pressure level; 4198 needs a heavier bullet, but may shoot well anyway. Don't know about RL-7, haven't tried it.

    All loads calculated with QuickLoad software, which I have found works well at suggesting loads at given (reasonable) pressure levels. You could probably drop the H110 charge 2-3 grains without risking squibs.

    For the 520 grain NOE bullet of my design, try

    37.5 grains RL-7 1210 FPS 34,000 PSI 100% loading density

    JR
    Last edited by John Ross; 08-02-2020 at 05:20 PM.
    JR--the .500 specialist

  12. #12
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    Ho ho, loads to try !!!!
    Thanks John !

    The 300 hp is a custom mould from Mountain Moulds and sent to Eric to be HP'd.
    Originally just a cool thumper for a 5 shot Blackhawk in 50AE. Yea, I was into half inch craziness before I bought your 500.
    I just dump in a 70-80 % load of Trail Boss, not looking for anything "sporty".
    I figure if I push it hard it will just explode (maybe not a bad thing for two legged varmints) - that HP cavity puts a Speer Flying Ashtray .45 to shame. 0.290 at the mouth, about 0.480 deep. It's only 0.640 long, 0.290 base to crimp groove.
    Cogno, Ergo, Boom

    If you're gonna be stupid, don't pull up short. Saddle up and ride it all the way in.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I never noticed before, but the 500 s&w is pretty close in size to the 50-70. I'm betting blackpowder would make a fantastic mid range load.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance John Ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger1911 View Post
    Ho ho, loads to try !!!!
    Thanks John !

    The 300 hp is a custom mould from Mountain Moulds and sent to Eric to be HP'd.
    Originally just a cool thumper for a 5 shot Blackhawk in 50AE. Yea, I was into half inch craziness before I bought your 500.
    I just dump in a 70-80 % load of Trail Boss, not looking for anything "sporty".
    I figure if I push it hard it will just explode (maybe not a bad thing for two legged varmints) - that HP cavity puts a Speer Flying Ashtray .45 to shame. 0.290 at the mouth, about 0.480 deep. It's only 0.640 long, 0.290 base to crimp groove.
    300 grain custom .501" hollow point cast bullet .290" shank in case
    S&W .500 Magnum 5" JR Model

    These loads approx. 34,000 PSI:
    42.5 H110/296 1600 FPS 89% load density
    38.5 Accurate 4100 1560 FPS 83% density
    30.0 Blue Dot 1545 FPS 82% density
    39.0 Accurate 5744 1540 FPS 91% density
    41.0 IMR 4227 1525 FPS 100% density

    Stepping up to 52,000 PSI:
    48.0 H110/296 1870 FPS 100% Load density
    42.5 Ramshot Enforcer 1840 FPS 93% density
    40.0 2400 1835 FPS 94% density
    44.0 Accurate 4100 1820 FPS 95% density
    36.0 Blue Dot 1800 FPS 99% density

    And:

    43.0 Accurate 5744 1710 FPS 100% density 45,000 PSI

    If I were planning to shoot this bullet a lot and wanted loads somewhat milder than the 34,000 PSI level but more than Trail Boss loads, I'd be tempted to pick up a pound each of Blue Dot and Accurate 5744 and see if they shot accurately with this bullet. I believe you could reduce the powder charge without any squib or cold weather issues.

    All the usual caveats and warnings apply...
    JR--the .500 specialist

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance John Ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    I never noticed before, but the 500 s&w is pretty close in size to the 50-70. I'm betting blackpowder would make a fantastic mid range load.
    I am sure there are some people that might want to shoot black powder in a modern firearm designed from its very inception to operate safely at 60,000 PSI.

    I am not one of them.
    JR--the .500 specialist

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance John Ross's Avatar
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    GS1911, I said in my initial post that I did not like the idea of using traditional pistol and shotgun powders in loading the .500 Smith & Wesson. I would like to amend that statement now.

    There is one powder with which I have extensive experience in the .44 Magnum, and which has been shown by millions of shooters for over 100 years to be completely safe and reliable at loading densities of 50% or less, and that powder is Unique.

    Unique was developed by the Hercules powder company when that company split off from DuPont in 1912. For over a century that powder has proven itself in all manner of handgun loads, especially in Magnum revolvers where the shooter wants a load that is milder than factory offerings, but still throws a solid punch. In addition, it has been successfully used in cartridges like the .30-30 with reduced charges under lightweight cast bullets to turn that gun into one suitable for small game.

    I have loaded tens of thousands of .44 Magnum rounds on my Star tool with 9.5 grains of Unique and a 250 grain Keith bullet, for new shooters, girlfriends, etc. Perhaps the only downside to this powder is that it is fairly dirty, but Alliant Powder Company addressed this issue in 2001 with a new formulation that has exactly the same burning characteristics but is considerably cleaner.

    I have not actually used Unique in the .500 yet, but I have no doubt that it would be both a good and safe powder at considerably lower loading densities than the ones I typically use.

    I like the idea of always having a loading density above 50% of the gross case volume (full to the brim), so that a double or triple (I'm looking at you, Titegroup) charge is impossible for even the most clueless or distracted reloader. No one is going to try to seat the bullet on a charged case where the case is overflowing with powder.

    Here then are the Quickload generated estimates of Unique loads at 60% loading density with your various bullets. The 60% figure is 60% of NET capacity (the space under the bullet), so please realize that a double charge will not overflow the case, and while easy to see, is still possible if you are really careless. FYI the .500 holds about 37.5 grains of Unique full to the case mouth, so a double charge of anything less than 18.8 grains will not overflow, but should still be glaringly obvious.

    300 grain HP .290" shank in case
    17.5 gr. Unique 1300 FPS 27,000 PSI

    400 Grain Mihec .440" shank in case
    14.9 gr. Unique 1080 FPS 29,000 PSI

    520 grain NOE Ross long range design .440" shank in case 2.320" OAL
    14.9 gr. Unique 1000 FPS 33,000 PSI

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by John Ross; 08-04-2020 at 07:40 AM.
    JR--the .500 specialist

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Mister Ross
    Have you used Starline 500 special brass?
    Blackhorn 209 compressed and lit with a magnum rifle primer is a fun load. Lots of smoke and sparks. It isn’t much more than a thousand feet per second. Unique will do that with less recoil. I know a gentleman that shoots thousands of rounds with unique in the magnum case with zero problems.

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance John Ross's Avatar
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    No. I'll get some if and when S&W comes out with a shortened X-Frame in .500 Special.
    JR
    JR--the .500 specialist

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy BC17A's Avatar
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    How about some mid-range loads using other good powders like AA#5 & 7, Power Pistol, BE-86, Silhouette, Unique, CFE-Pistol, HS6 and Autocomp?

    I'm scratching my head wondering why Accurate shows loads for #2 then jumps straight to #9. Hodgdon from TG to Trailboss then right up to slow Magnum powders. I think those others would make great mid-range loads using lighter boolits in the 300-325 grain range, either in a special case or using a felt wad. I'll probably start working up some loads for them so I have options for my welterweight friends who shy away from real power.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check