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Thread: More 9mm woes

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    More 9mm woes

    I’ve been trying to get my cast boolits to work in my Polymer 80. The original barrel was of unknown origin, came with the kit I bought. I sent it to Dougguy to rework the throat and wasn’t happy with accuracy after that. Decided to try a new barrel from Lonewolf. My reloads would not plunk in the chamber, which I narrowed down to my Lee resizing die not properly sizing brass. New RCBS die took care of that, so I went to try it out.

    Edit: Pic is 90 deg off, right side is bottom target.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Shot at 15 yards. Bottom target is factory ammo, top is my reloads with cast boolits. Mold is from Accurate, 130gr. 4.7gr Unique. I pulled a bullet and found slight swaging down to .356, which should be ok since my barrel slugged at .3555. Not sure where to go from here. Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
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    WheelgunConvert's Avatar
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    Most of the ones off the plate are keyholes.
    Stronger, Prouder and Greater!

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    One handed, two handed, from a rest or standing?

    Does the top punch closely fit the nose of the bullet you are seating. Looks like you are getting tipping as you seat the bullet as shown by the swollen appearance at the base of the bullet on the two cartridges on the right.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy PJEagle's Avatar
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    I have a 9MM that sluggs at .3555. The accuracy is much better with .357 boolits that .356.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheelgunConvert View Post
    Most of the ones off the plate are keyholes.
    That’s what I thought. The backer wasn’t stapled securely on the top right corner so I wasn’t sure.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bannister View Post
    One handed, two handed, from a rest or standing?

    Does the top punch closely fit the nose of the bullet you are seating. Looks like you are getting tipping as you seat the bullet as shown by the swollen appearance at the base of the bullet on the two cartridges on the right.
    Standing, 2 handed. I did everything the same on the bottom target as I did on the top.

    ETA: Top punch does not exactly fit boolit profile.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJEagle View Post
    I have a 9MM that sluggs at .3555. The accuracy is much better with .357 boolits that .356.
    I sized them to 357 after PC. I use a 38 S&Wexpander. After crimping, they apparently get swaged to 356.

  8. #8
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    Interesting. I have been going through the same thing with plated and FMJ bullets until yesterday. I tried all sorts of things, W-231, Titegroup and CFE powders. At least four different bullets.

    I too had good success with Winchester white box putting five of five in the center black at 50' off a rest indoors. I stepped back and started all over, slugged my barrel and worked up loads for three different bullets and two different powders. The big thing I did that I "think" made the difference was to back my seating die out so it just barely and I mean barely holds the bullet in the case. That is the main thing I believe I changed and my success was surprising. I had 4.2 grains of W231 and 3.8 of Titegroup both show very well and I came home with a dilemma - which load to use they were both good! And that was with a pulled known name 124 grain FMJ RN, 124 grain Berry's HBRN and a Remington 124 grain hollow point. I have at least two or three more bullets in bulk to work on so it never ends.

    All that said, I was given some lead bullets in the 125 range, RN and I could never get them to group well. Best of luck

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    Close to top load in 9mm. Size 357 and see if they pass plunk test. You do have to expand the case more for cast. properly sizing brass helps.
    Whatever!

  10. #10
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    Try the largest size that chambers and cycles. I'd start with .358 cast out of coww and quench.

    Made a BIG difference for my shooting partner
    Last edited by Conditor22; 07-27-2020 at 11:59 AM. Reason: spelling :(

  11. #11
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    I would consider the Lyman M die unless that 38 S&W does exactly the same thing. Would also consider crimping in a separate step with the Lee Factory Crimp Die and only just barely taking the bell out.

    Those two things made a difference for me.

    I also would not be afraid to work up a load with a different powder. HP-38 is the winner for me in the 125g range.

  12. #12
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    On that last batch, I seated and crimped in separate steps. I also put 2 coats of PC on these boolits before running them through my Lee .357 die.

  13. #13
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    It appears that the bullets as loaded are too small. Lee sizing dies are notorious for not sizing to the size marked, BTW. More layers of PC won't help either. 9mmP can be a PITA to get right but can be done. Typically the brass is sized down more than needed and will squeeze the cast bullet down unless a custom expander is used. If bullets are not seated straight the cartridges won't chamber either.
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  14. #14
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    NOE makes an expander plug that will properly expand a case for a cast boolit. It works inside a Lee Universal Expanding die. I would also check the size of a boolit after sending it through that Lee sizing die. If it is smaller than 357, you can open it up with emory cloth wrapped around a wooden dowel. Just hold the sides of the dowel and roll the die on a flat surface with even pressure. A screw driver will work in a pinch in place of the dowel. Also, there is no crimp needed in 9mm. Just remove the bell on the end of the case. It should not be crimped into the lead boolit.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    https://noebulletmolds.com/site/prod...er-plug-pistol

    The .357x.353 auto pistol expander says it works on 9mm Kurz. The other .357x.353 doesn’t say what it’s for. Are one of these what I need?

    Edit to note I am currently using a 38 S&W expander in a Lee powder through die.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by blikseme300 View Post
    It appears that the bullets as loaded are too small. Lee sizing dies are notorious for not sizing to the size marked, BTW. More layers of PC won't help either. 9mmP can be a PITA to get right but can be done. Typically the brass is sized down more than needed and will squeeze the cast bullet down unless a custom expander is used. If bullets are not seated straight the cartridges won't chamber either.
    My Lee sizer does size correctly, right at .357.

  17. #17
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    I size my 9MM bullets to .358.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bashby View Post
    I’ve been trying to get my cast boolits to work in my Polymer 80. The original barrel was of unknown origin, came with the kit I bought. I sent it to Dougguy to rework the throat and wasn’t happy with accuracy after that. Decided to try a new barrel from Lonewolf. My reloads would not plunk in the chamber, which I narrowed down to my Lee resizing die not properly sizing brass. New RCBS die took care of that, so I went to try it out.

    Edit: Pic is 90 deg off, right side is bottom target.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.jpg 
Views:	117 
Size:	42.7 KB 
ID:	265315

    Shot at 15 yards. Bottom target is factory ammo, top is my reloads with cast boolits. Mold is from Accurate, 130gr. 4.7gr Unique. I pulled a bullet and found slight swaging down to .356, which should be ok since my barrel slugged at .3555. Not sure where to go from here. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.jpg 
Views:	104 
Size:	96.0 KB 
ID:	265316
    I cast the same Accurate 130 gr bullet and coat with Hi-Tek, I load the 130gr un sized which is .359" to .360" and my pulled bullets are always .358" or more. This is dependent on the round passing the plunk test.
    You might try the bullets unsized in the barrel that Dougguy reworked for you, some brands of brass will swagge bullets more than others, I have backed off my sizer die so as not to full length resize but always check for correct neck tension.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Keyholing means the bullet is not spinning.

    Either too small a bullet or too soft an alloy to take the twist, or barrel is leaded. You got some good advice above.

    You might want to get 100 commercial bullets made from 92-6-2 alloy and see what happens. Get them sized .357. YMMV
    Don Verna


  20. #20
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    The 2 biggest problems/causes of failure with loading cast in 9MM are OVER-CRIMPING & downsizing the boolit when seating.
    The 9MM has a tapered case.

    Crimping, I use the lee FCD and only crimp to where the boolit won't move when the cartridge is pushed against a hard object.

    For seating I like the NOE neck sizing dies so much I talked with a member ob CB who made a Lee powder through die with the NOE profile of several different diameters. I've had good luck expanding the brass using the same diamiter expanding plug as the boolit diamiter (brass springs back .001 after expanding and that .
    .001 does the job holding the boolit in place!

    A 38spcl/357mag expander plug should work also

    I used to expand the neck with the NOE neck sizing die the use the Lee powder through setup to charge the case.

    Ues a kenetic boolit puller and make sure your not downsizing the boolit in either of these operations.

    this will go a long way toward tightening up your groups and preventing leading/tumbling

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check