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Thread: 1885 Winchesters and Ubertis

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    bigted's Avatar
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    1885 Winchesters and Ubertis

    Doing a bit of a survey on chambers in 45 Colt.

    My experience in 1873, 1892 rifles and carbines chambered in the 45 Colt round has been abysmal at best. While I very much like the old Colt round, and have purchased several lever guns so chambered. My experience has been huge chambers that leave the brass unable to chamber in my Colt second gen nor my Ruger new Vaquero.

    My question is ... are there shooters of the new Moruko Japchesters or Uberti 1885 single shot rifles chambered in the 45 Colt round, finding that the chambers in these 1885 hi-wall and low-wall rifles having inordinately big chambers?

    My zest for the old Colt round is high. I desire finding a revolver/rifle combo that are compatible with each other to be able to share rounds ... and ... not need to keep track of what was fired in what ... as well as having a rifle that is as easy on brass as my second gen Colt SAA.

    Anybody care to share their experience and findings with the chamber sizes in these singleshot rifles?
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  2. #2
    Boolit Man
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    Do you reload? If so, try using an older all steel sizing die instead of a carbide die. I have an older RCBS steel die for 44 mag and it sizes the case all the way down to the shell holder, unlike most carbide dies which tend to leave a bulge just above the rim. Just have to lube the case. The same but different process for the 9 mm and 40 S&W cases that are sized in a push through die; eliminates the case bulge @ the extractor groove.

    My 1894 Marlin in 45 Colt bulges the case but my Hornady carbide die takes out most of the bulge and the reloads will fit in my Ruger Bisley Blackhawk 45 fine. All this sizing does work the case a lot however, but I have mostly used Federal brass and don't really have any problems.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Yes do reload and have stopped sizing the "bulg" out as this really hurts brass life.

    I preciate your reply ... however what I was looking for is info on Hiwalls from both JapChesters and Uberti manufacturers chamber size. Wondering if the chamber size in either their Hiwall's or Lowall's is big like their levers are.

    I am not going to spend any more hard earned pennys for another rifle chambered in my favorite round ... the 45 Colt ... till I find out the chamber sizes.
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    If you reload your sizing die is the device that sets the size of your reloaded ammo.
    The rifle chamber does not set the size of loaded ammo.
    EDG

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    If you reload your sizing die is the device that sets the size of your reloaded ammo.
    The rifle chamber does not set the size of loaded ammo.
    True, but an oversized/out of round chamber plays havoc with case life.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    If you reload your sizing die is the device that sets the size of your reloaded ammo.
    The rifle chamber does not set the size of loaded ammo.
    Lol ... you guys made me go back and re-read my original post.
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Possibly the point here is that for 45LC to feed in a lever action ,where the round tilts up to go into the chamber ,needs a certain amount of oversize in the chamber or the round will jam part way in........OK,how does this relate to a S/S?......Makers use the same dimension reamer for the single as for the lever.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Possibly the point here is that for 45LC to feed in a lever action ,where the round tilts up to go into the chamber ,needs a certain amount of oversize in the chamber or the round will jam part way in........OK,how does this relate to a S/S?......Makers use the same dimension reamer for the single as for the lever.
    So if that is true ... then ALL 45 Colt rifles to include single shot ... will be built with these ridicules chamber sizes.

    I deduce that beings the revolvers have been chambered correctly and concentric and seem to work wonderfully ... then the only choice would be to build a custom lined single shot that does not bulge cases so badly that they only last a few loadings ... or ... load large boolits that will not work in revolvers.

    Might just be able to buy a number 5 Remington Roller and line the barrel with a .452 inch 45 liner and put a correct chamber that will trade rounds with say a Ruger new Vaquero or black hawk. Then trading rounds between weapons would be sure to work.

    Was hoping that Japchester 1885 High wall or Low wall or Uberti's would have had a correct chamber but maybe not.

    Oh yea ... as for lever guns ... the 1873 lifts the cartridge up flat to the axes of the barrel and thusely the chambers on these levers SHOULD be of correct size ... maybe I should just line my '73' Japchester 45 Colt and have a correct sized chamber reamed in it. ... Maybe an option..
    Last edited by bigted; 08-01-2020 at 10:38 PM.
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Your question makes sense to me. I would like to have a 45 colt rifle if I was reasonably sure it had a bore and chamber that did not overwork the brass and could share bullet diameter with my handgun. Just a choice we make like anything else.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Can't help you with your 45LC question, but my Uberti 1885 Hi-wall chambered in 30-30 does not over work the brass.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    The obvious answer is to have the chambers in a revolver cylinder reworked to match the fired brass from your pet leveraction.......But first ,it might be advisable to check if the leveraction will work with the unsized fired brass......because you are ,in effect,removing the clearance in the chamber that allows the case to feed without jamming..........I recall ,someone once said to me his 92 clone in 45 actually had an out of round chamber ,with a bulge placed to allow the round to feed freely.
    Last edited by john.k; 08-03-2020 at 04:47 PM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Man
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    I have to say that I think this was just an excuse for a bad chamber job. I find it hard to believe that a manufacturer would somehow ream an eccentric chamber so the shell feeds correctly. Would like to see such a reamer.
    The Marlin 94 I mentioned in the post above appears to have an oversize chamber, not an out of round chamber. This may or may not be deliberate on Marlin's part. I have a number of other Marlin guns of around the same period in different calibers and their chambers are all pretty close to perfect, so I would say that it is only the 45 Colt reamer which was defective. Have encountered a number of other instances in various forums on the Internet that state the same thing about Marlins in 45 Colt.

    One problem with the 45 Colt is that the case is more or less cylindrical, not tapered at all and the reamers for rifles have to be slightly oversize so factory ammo will feed without issue. Remember, the manufacturers are building guns to shoot SAAMI factory ammo. They don't really care that we are shooting reloads, because they have no control over the quality of the reloaded ammo. Any recent gun manual I have read usually has a statement about the use of reloads and that you are using them at you own risk.

    If any of us is having trouble feeding reloads in multiple guns, I suggest that you size the cases to fit all of you firearms in 45 Colt and just dump the brass when it gives out. It's not like it is unavailable or really a rare caliber. I have found that light loads in my Marlin are worse than the heavy "Ruger" rated loads because the case doesn't expand and I get gas leakage around the case. Good luck.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check