1885 Winchesters and Ubertis

[bigted]

Doing a bit of a survey on chambers in 45 Colt.

My experience in 1873, 1892 rifles and carbines chambered in the 45 Colt round has been abysmal at best. While I very much like the old Colt round, and have purchased several lever guns so chambered. My experience has been huge chambers that leave the brass unable to chamber in my Colt second gen nor my Ruger new Vaquero.

My question is ... are there shooters of the new Moruko Japchesters or Uberti 1885 single shot rifles chambered in the 45 Colt round, finding that the chambers in these 1885 hi-wall and low-wall rifles having inordinately big chambers?

My zest for the old Colt round is high. I desire finding a revolver/rifle combo that are compatible with each other to be able to share rounds ... and ... not need to keep track of what was fired in what ... as well as having a rifle that is as easy on brass as my second gen Colt SAA.

Anybody care to share their experience and findings with the chamber sizes in these singleshot rifles?

[nhithaca]

Do you reload? If so, try using an older all steel sizing die instead of a carbide die. I have an older RCBS steel die for 44 mag and it sizes the case all the way down to the shell holder, unlike most carbide dies which tend to leave a bulge just above the rim. Just have to lube the case. The same but different process for the 9 mm and 40 S&W cases that are sized in a push through die; eliminates the case bulge @ the extractor groove.

My 1894 Marlin in 45 Colt bulges the case but my Hornady carbide die takes out most of the bulge and the reloads will fit in my Ruger Bisley Blackhawk 45 fine. All this sizing does work the case a lot however, but I have mostly used Federal brass and don't really have any problems.

[bigted]

Yes do reload and have stopped sizing the "bulg" out as this really hurts brass life.

I preciate your reply ... however what I was looking for is info on Hiwalls from both JapChesters and Uberti manufacturers chamber size. Wondering if the chamber size in either their Hiwall's or Lowall's is big like their levers are.

I am not going to spend any more hard earned pennys for another rifle chambered in my favorite round ... the 45 Colt ... till I find out the chamber sizes.

[EDG]

If you reload your sizing die is the device that sets the size of your reloaded ammo.
The rifle chamber does not set the size of loaded ammo.

[Wayne Smith]

If you reload your sizing die is the device that sets the size of your reloaded ammo.
The rifle chamber does not set the size of loaded ammo.

True, but an oversized/out of round chamber plays havoc with case life.

[bigted]

If you reload your sizing die is the device that sets the size of your reloaded ammo.
The rifle chamber does not set the size of loaded ammo.

Lol ... you guys made me go back and re-read my original post.

[john.k]

Possibly the point here is that for 45LC to feed in a lever action ,where the round tilts up to go into the chamber ,needs a certain amount of oversize in the chamber or the round will jam part way in........OK,how does this relate to a S/S?......Makers use the same dimension reamer for the single as for the lever.

[bigted]

Possibly the point here is that for 45LC to feed in a lever action ,where the round tilts up to go into the chamber ,needs a certain amount of oversize in the chamber or the round will jam part way in........OK,how does this relate to a S/S?......Makers use the same dimension reamer for the single as for the lever.

So if that is true ... then ALL 45 Colt rifles to include single shot ... will be built with these ridicules chamber sizes.

I deduce that beings the revolvers have been chambered correctly and concentric and seem to work wonderfully ... then the only choice would be to build a custom lined single shot that does not bulge cases so badly that they only last a few loadings ... or ... load large boolits that will not work in revolvers.

Might just be able to buy a number 5 Remington Roller and line the barrel with a .452 inch 45 liner and put a correct chamber that will trade rounds with say a Ruger new Vaquero or black hawk. Then trading rounds between weapons would be sure to work.

Was hoping that Japchester 1885 High wall or Low wall or Uberti's would have had a correct chamber but maybe not.

Oh yea ... as for lever guns ... the 1873 lifts the cartridge up flat to the axes of the barrel and thusely the chambers on these levers SHOULD be of correct size ... maybe I should just line my '73' Japchester 45 Colt and have a correct sized chamber reamed in it. ... Maybe an option..

[onelight]

Your question makes sense to me. I would like to have a 45 colt rifle if I was reasonably sure it had a bore and chamber that did not overwork the brass and could share bullet diameter with my handgun. Just a choice we make like anything else.

[sparky45]

Can't help you with your 45LC question, but my Uberti 1885 Hi-wall chambered in 30-30 does not over work the brass.

[john.k]

The obvious answer is to have the chambers in a revolver cylinder reworked to match the fired brass from your pet leveraction.......But first ,it might be advisable to check if the leveraction will work with the unsized fired brass......because you are ,in effect,removing the clearance in the chamber that allows the case to feed without jamming..........I recall ,someone once said to me his 92 clone in 45 actually had an out of round chamber ,with a bulge placed to allow the round to feed freely.

[nhithaca]

I have to say that I think this was just an excuse for a bad chamber job. I find it hard to believe that a manufacturer would somehow ream an eccentric chamber so the shell feeds correctly. Would like to see such a reamer.
The Marlin 94 I mentioned in the post above appears to have an oversize chamber, not an out of round chamber. This may or may not be deliberate on Marlin's part. I have a number of other Marlin guns of around the same period in different calibers and their chambers are all pretty close to perfect, so I would say that it is only the 45 Colt reamer which was defective. Have encountered a number of other instances in various forums on the Internet that state the same thing about Marlins in 45 Colt.

One problem with the 45 Colt is that the case is more or less cylindrical, not tapered at all and the reamers for rifles have to be slightly oversize so factory ammo will feed without issue. Remember, the manufacturers are building guns to shoot SAAMI factory ammo. They don't really care that we are shooting reloads, because they have no control over the quality of the reloaded ammo. Any recent gun manual I have read usually has a statement about the use of reloads and that you are using them at you own risk.

If any of us is having trouble feeding reloads in multiple guns, I suggest that you size the cases to fit all of you firearms in 45 Colt and just dump the brass when it gives out. It's not like it is unavailable or really a rare caliber. I have found that light loads in my Marlin are worse than the heavy "Ruger" rated loads because the case doesn't expand and I get gas leakage around the case. Good luck.

[bigted]

I can see how all this may need to work in 1892's and 1894's but the problem does not exist in a 1873 or single shots.

Guess my quest and answer is in customizing a current model such as my winny 1873 16 inch barrel in 45 Colt by relining it and chambering it proper as the shells get pushed straight into and outta the chamber.

Problem is money. Specially since I have heard of no problems with either the 357 nor 44 magnums chambering in any rifle being large and working the brass unnecessarily.

Ho hum ... some quests are bound to be fraught with disappointments I recon

[EDG]

only if your die squeezes your ammo back to SAAMI standards.
It is like I said above the die sets the size of the ammo.
If you have a bad chamber use a larger die and larger bullet.
If the chamber is truly bad then you need to have the barrel cut back and rechambered or have the rifle rebarreled.
As it is the die is the only cheap solution.

True, but an oversized/out of round chamber plays havoc with case life.

[EDG]

In order to get a rifle to feed the chamber needs to be a good bit larger than the loaded ammo OR the feed mechanism needs to be very precise and straight line in design.

The original Henry and Winchester 66 and 73 models used the .44 Henry Flat Rimfire and the vertical carrier provided very good alignment of the cartridges to the chamber yet

The next generation of 1873 Win cartridges were all of the following designs - Bottle neck .44-40 (44 WCF), .38-40 (38 WCF) and .32-20 (.32-WCF). The very popular .44 Special and .45 Colt were never chambered in the original rifles. They were never chambered in the later model Winchesters designed by John Browning.

Straight cases are mostly the province of revolvers and auto pistols.
Rifles tend to use bottle necked or tapered cartridges. While wildly popular even the straight appearing .45-70 is really a tapered case.

I can see how all this may need to work in 1892's and 1894's but the problem does not exist in a 1873 or single shots.

Guess my quest and answer is in customizing a current model such as my winny 1873 16 inch barrel in 45 Colt by relining it and chambering it proper as the shells get pushed straight into and outta the chamber.

Problem is money. Specially since I have heard of no problems with either the 357 nor 44 magnums chambering in any rifle being large and working the brass unnecessarily.

Ho hum ... some quests are bound to be fraught with disappointments I recon

[Pepe Ray]

Regarding the size difference in .45 Colt chambers in long arms vs. revolvers. And following the old cleshay to whit "Its easier to remove metal than to add it." Has anyone considered having there Ruger chambers enlarged to match the long arm (including the loading die). As long as the loads do not exceed factory level, I would feel safe in doing so. - - - Comments? - - - Pepe Ray

[HawkCreek]

My Miroku made 1892 in .45 Colt bulges brass with light loads (American Eagle 250 grain) but those bulged cases fit fine in both my old and new model Vaqueros. I even checked and they fit in my Freedom Arms .45 cylinder. Snug for sure but they seat fully.
With a heavy load like the 300+ grain offerings from BuffaloBore there is no discernable case bulge.

[bigted]

All interesting. My second gen Colt SAA is not going to get reamed out for ammo that results from a bad chamber.

Having said this, I realize that my Colt is a nice tight chambered revolver and the Japchester '73' is a bit on the large size chamber.

My thoughts run to obtaining an old Roller #5 rifle and either lining it to .452 inch liner and running in a correct chamber ream ... or ... rebarreling it with a snazzy octagonal .452 barrel and just enjoy the two.