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Thread: Green dot ????

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master


    swheeler's Avatar
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    Well it says maximum loads shown reduce 10% to start doesn't it..........

    from 1980............Important; the charges given are stated to be NEVER EXCEED and reduce by 10% for starting charge weight (cw). Also BEWARE, different production lots may vary and there have been many lots since 1980 by Hercules and then Aliant"
    Last edited by swheeler; 07-30-2020 at 09:59 PM.
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  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by swheeler View Post
    Well it says maximum loads shown reduce 10% to start doesn't it..........
    No, The Hercules Smokeless Powder Guide does not say that. Perhaps before making such blatantly unsafe statements you should actually research the topic.

    Even if you reduce the 357 and 44 magnum loads 10% for a "start" load and they would be still way over safe pressures..... I recommend, based on actual pressure testing, that data not be used. That is contrary to your stated "I would use any....."

    Walking it back however hard you want to to discredit the facts is still not going to make using that data for Green Dot safe in the 357 and 44 magnums......"duh"......
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 07-29-2020 at 10:06 AM.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  3. #23
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    Oh I see somebody needs nappy time!
    Last edited by swheeler; 07-29-2020 at 08:09 PM.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by swheeler View Post
    Oh I see somebody needs nappy time!
    Don't you get it. Sometimes here, bad advice is offered and it is hard to not get upset when corrections are rebutted. Yeah, maybe Larry should chill, he did his due diligence and if it is disregarded. The old adage applies "a word to the wise is sufficient."

    To everyone, not all published data is safe. Do not rely on a single source of loading data. Some people should not reload ammo. Some people should not own guns. Some people will hurt themselves and others.

    This is not rocket science but some people can't cook pancakes.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  5. #25
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    Chill?.....heck it was 117 here yesterday, going to be hotter today and still hotter tomorrow.....
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    I think I'll bee keeping the green dot in the 12ga after reading this. Now I'm wondering if old data for bullseye, red dot, unique and herco is any good

  7. #27
    Boolit Bub
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    I have used green dot for 45acp and had good results with it. This was years ago - a local gunstore was going out business and I picked up a 4# keg at a very low price. Don't remember the load that I used in my 1911 but accuracy was good with 200gr SWC.

    See below thread for more discussion on Green Dot data.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ound-for-45ACP

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridenclimb View Post
    I have used green dot for 45acp and had good results with it. This was years ago - a local gunstore was going out business and I picked up a 4# keg at a very low price. Don't remember the load that I used in my 1911 but accuracy was good with 200gr SWC.

    See below thread for more discussion on Green Dot data.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ound-for-45ACP
    Thanks for the link! I especially like this part"Important; the charges given are stated to be NEVER EXCEED and reduce by 10% for starting charge weight (cw). Also BEWARE, different production lots may vary and there have been many lots since 1980 by Hercules and then Aliant" excellent advice adhered to buy us veteran reloaders!!!!
    Charter Member #148

  9. #29
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    swheeler

    Good to see you edited out your previous statement; :"I would use ANY published load from any manual for green dot, just start at the START load, then work up, duhh." and now, apparently, realize there is some older data which is incorrect and should not be used even with a "10% reduction" for a start load.

    The Hercules Reloader Guide I posted came up in an earlier thread on Green Dot not too long ago. It is dated 1968. Many if not most (including earlier Lyman manuals) did not pressure test the loads. Many were/are a bit extreme. Many newer manuals from some sources are simply regurgitations of old data. Some manuals like Lee's and many internet sources are simply data obtained from many different sources and are not actually pressure tested by them. However, the advent of piezo-transducer and strain gauge pressure testing has made pressure testing of cartridge/loads much easier and faster along with providing a much clearer concept of the internal ballistic. Thus, much data since the '80s has been actually pressure tested. This is why we've seen some lowering of data in some manuals. It's not the lawyers or change in components so much as it is a much better understanding of the actual pressures created by the loads that has resulted in the reduction of many loads.

    As dtknowles states multiple sources should be used. I would add to that again to use newer data (post '80) that has been pressure tested and lists said pressure. Even with that a multiple source check is best. Sometimes we can't with older cartridges or wildcats for which no post '80 pressure tested data is available. Diligent research is necessary with those with those.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Chill?.....heck it was 117 here yesterday, going to be hotter today and still hotter tomorrow.....
    You ain't lying! ��

  11. #31
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    When I was just starting to reload in the mid 70s, I loaded to factory equilibrium in general. I found when getting into the Contender with rifle cartridges that I wanted to be sure of the pressures generated as I considered them to be somewhat borderline with 30-30 sized cases. Anyway, where I am headed, I started to look for manuals that listed measured pressure for min and max loads. If the source did not list measured pressure I considered it suspect. I was able to select powders that gave best book velocity at lowest pressure to start load development . Often finding everything I needed right there. As I have gotten older, I rarely load beyond mid range but still shoot some “big shells in little guns”, like M69 Smith and 44 special GP100s. I still want actual pressure data and how it was derived, not trusting anything else. On the green dot issue, I used it a lot in 20 ga. Ran out of the 74 vintage 8# keg and bought a new. Since my load was not max I filled the bottle and loaded a box( yeah, I know). Found when I shot them that the powder density was very different. A mec 25 bushing threw what it took a 28 to throw of the old keg. Had it been a max load and weaker gun could have been bad. That is probably why GD is no longer shown for 20 ha, it is considered to quick for tube sets. The peak pressure is at a time where it splits the weakest part of the tubes chamber, over the ejectors. Since we now have 3 sets of sub gage tubes in the house, my green dot gets used in 16 gage. I will be trying it in 32hr when I get rountuit. Keeping a keg for 16ga it’s handy to use for other stuff as well. Sorry for ramblings.
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  12. #32
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    I like Green Dot.
    Back in one of the shooting components shortages, the only powder I could find was Green Dot.
    I tried it, and liked it.
    I was mostly loading for 9mm & 45acp.
    come to find out, there was an overlap looking at the loading charts, where the SAME powder charge good for 9mm & 45
    9mm is a smaller cartridge run at higher pressure than 45acp
    45acp is a larger cartridge run at lower pressure than 9mm
    there is an overlap where the SAME powder charge satisfies both loadings,
    therefore when you swap between loading dies, your powder measure (may) remain the same.
    i like it

  13. #33
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    Thank you all for replying, this is way more than i thought possible I will be studying this for a while.

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy
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    Do you have a 300blk? You can make some sweet light/quiet cast loads for that cartridge with any of the "dot" powders.

    I make tons of 38 special/357 mag plinkers with green dot as well. If you're worried about pressure, just load the max 38sp load into 357 brass. Lots of wiggle room.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    I think larry should publish his own manual i trust what he says more than most cause he has put in the effort to test quite a few loads for us when he could have been sittin in his recliner drinking whiskey. Ya got my respect larry
    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

  16. #36
    Boolit Man

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozark mike View Post
    I think larry should publish his own manual i trust what he says more than most cause he has put in the effort to test quite a few loads for us when he could have been sittin in his recliner drinking whiskey. Ya got my respect larry
    Same here-

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check