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Thread: Green dot ????

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Green dot ????

    A friend was cleaning out the house after his grandmother husband had passed and brought me a bunch of powder, most of it I have a real good plan for its use. Win 748 Ive used for 223 for years, Win 231 is good for my 45 acp, and I guess 9mm when I get to them. But there is a big paper drum of green dot. My friend Gary has older reloading manuals than I and sent my some loads for 38 special that I load a lot for, and I would guess that it cold be used for shotshells. I have so much of it and was wondering are there any other uses for green dot I am missing. It seems to me that Hercules has removed all load data from the net or maybe my google fuu is small. Any body got any ideas???

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Great powder for 12 and 16 ga. I have used it a good bit in 20 ga as well, but is a bit fast for the 20. It’s between red dot and unique, lots of cast load potential.
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    CastingFool's Avatar
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    I've used GD to load 20 ga shotshells

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    The Lyman 3rd Edition Cast Boolit manual has a bunch of .45acp & 30-06 loads for Green Dot. Got both, so checked my copy of the manual. I've only got a pound of the powder. You're so lucky!

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master

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    It works for handgun rounds. Lots of old Hercules/Alliant manuals available in .pdf form. I’m fairly partial to it as it works well across a broad spectrum of cartridges.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I've use GD in pretty much ever pistol I load for: 38SP-9mm-40SW-44SP-45LC. Works great. Lots of data in books out there.

    It is really made for shotgun shell reloading, but it goes boom very nicely in pistol carts too.

    I do not give load data out on the internet.

    banger

  7. #7
    Boolit Bub
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    As mentioned, great powder for 12 ga AA trap shells, and about every handgun cartridge. I'd take an 8 pounder any day.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I'm just going to mention this for safety reasons because I noticed the op is new to the group .
    But check it to make sure it's still good .
    Green Dot is a very useful powder .

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Good for light cast bullet rifle loads too.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Castpics.net has pdf files of several Hercules and alliant older Manuel's. Lots of GD data.
    QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES?

  11. #11
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    https://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...spx?powderid=5
    For Alliant powders click on the powder and hit view all recipes. They only list it for 44 mag and 45 Colt but it is factory listings. They will not list their shotgun powders as pistol powders any longer but they sure do work.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    It never goes bad...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by higgins View Post
    Good for light cast bullet rifle loads too.
    I used up quite a bit of it in my 7x57 Mausr until I ran out and switched to 700X. Same charge for both, both work well.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    When I got a deal on an 8 pound jug of Green Dot I used it for everything I was using Red Dot and Unique in. .380, 9mm (para and largo), 7.62x23, 357 mag, 30-30, 22 Hornet mid range cast bullet loads. I was happy with the loads I developed.
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  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master


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    It's my favorite powder to load 20 gauge shells and 45 LC.
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

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  16. #16
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    FYI; Green Dot in the 357 and 44 magnum and old data;

    357 and 44 Magnum with Green Dot PSI test

    I conducted the pressure tests of new Alliant Green Dot yesterday (March 19, 2019) in the 357 Magnum and the 44 magnum.

    Initially I started with the 357 magnum using the Lee TL358-158-SWC cast of COWWs + 2% tin, sized .358 and lubed with BAC. Cases were Winchester 357 brass and WSP primers were used. The bullets were seated to the top lube groove in the bullet and a roll crimp was applied. Testing was done with a Contender using a strain gauge located over the chamber at the SAAMI prescribed location. The Oehler M43 PBL was used to measure the velocity and pressure. The barrel length of the test barrel is 7.94". Target was at 50 yards for group size.

    I started off with a "reference" test string of 14 gr 2400 under the 358156. The resulting velocity was 1537 fps at 34,900 psi. That is within the test to test variation of that load so all appeared well.

    For the Green Dot test I had loaded increments of 5.5, 6.0, 6.5, 7.0 and 7.5 gr in 10 shot test strings with the 7.5 gr load being the load listed in the 1968 Hercules manual.

    During the first test of the 5.5 gr load I began to have technical problems. Some loads would appear normal, some were erratic and some did not record complete data. In selecting out the shots that appeared "good" I found the 5.5 gr load was running at 31,000 psi! Further testing suggested the 6.0 gr load was running at 37,300 psi, the 6.5 gr load at 41.400 psi and the 7.0 gr load at 43,200 psi. I did not test the 7.5 gr load.

    Another test string of the "reference" load revealed the same erratic readings. Thus I'm not betting these were correct though I did get a stuck cast with one of the 7.0 gr loads necessitating removal with pliers the psi was definitely there. Inspection when I got home revealed the scope base had become slightly loose and the ground was lost. I have fixed that problem and may run the 357 magnum test again in the near future.

    At this point of the testing, in the 357 magnum, I would not recommend a load over 5.5 gr with the Lee 158 TL bullet seated as such.

    After the 357 test I switched over to the 44 Magnum. Again the test barrel was Contender at 8.4". The initial test bullet was the Lee TL430-240-SWC cast of COWW + 2% tin, sized .430 and lubed with BAC. It was seated to the 1st lube groove and a roll crimp was applied there. The AOL was 1.600". I loaded 9 shot increments of 7.0, 9.0, 10.0, 11.0, and 11.5 gr (the load listed per the Hercules 1968 manual) of Alliant Green Dot.

    The 7.0 gr load was very pleasant at 1037 fps with a psi of 22,200. No abnormalities were noted. Accuracy for the 8 shots was just under 4" at 50 yards.

    Next I tested the 9 gr load and got a very amazing surprise! the velocity was 1163 and the psi had jumped up to the SAAMI MAP for the 44 magnum at 35,100. That was a whole lot for just a 2 gr increase! Accuracy was very poor with the bullets barely staying on the target paper (NRA 50 yard pistol target).

    I tried the 10 gr load and the 3rd case stuck and had to be pulled out with the pliers. The psi of that 3rd shot was 45,700. The 1st two shots were in the 40,000+ range. I suspended the test at that point with the Lee TL bullet.

    I had also loaded tests of the 7.0 gr load under a 260 gr commercial cast "Keith" type bullet and also under my own cast (COWWs + 2% tin) RCBS 44-250-K which weighed 253 gr.

    The commercial cast bullet ran 994 fps at 20,600 psi with a 3.5" group with nice even time/pressure traces.

    The RCBS 44-250-K ran 1004 fps at 19,700 psi with the best group at 1.525" also having nice smooth time/pressure traces.

    So you ask; "why did the heavier bullets give less psi with the 7 gr load?" That's a good question and I've come to believe the seating depth (that is not the AOL BTW) is the answer. When we look and the 3 bullets and how deeply they were seated in the case we see immediately the Lee 240 gr bullet was the seated the deepest. Then the 260 gr commercial bullet. The RCBS bullet was seated the less leaving more "case capacity". A further comparison of the Lee TL 240 gr bullet with an 8.0 gr load will be conducted comparing different seating depths of the same bullet [crimped in 1st lube groove vs crimped in the 2nd lube groove].

    At this time, in the 44 magnum, I consider the Max load of Green Dot powder under the Lee 240 gr TL bullet seated to the 1st lube groove to be 9 gr. I suggest, if Green Dot is used with this bullet seated

    7 - 8 gr would be a good "working range" to test in a 44 Magnum revolver.

    I have posted a warning in the previous post containing the old Hercules manual not to use the Green Dot data contained thereon.

    BTW; I also had 10 rounds left of Magtech 240 gr SP which I had used a "reference" ammunition with this barrel. I shot those last yesterday. The barrel was fouled with all the previous cast bullet shooting so I just shot a factory round "on top" of the cast bullet fouling. We often hear dire warnings not to do so as pressures might be extremely high so I thought we just might see. That 1st shot of the factory magnum load ran 1403 fps at 24,700 psi. The next 9 shots ran 1440 fps at 28,100 psi which is within the test to test variation of this box of factory ammunition. Seems that 1st shot through the cast bullet fouled barrel gave less velocity and considerable less psi well outside the psi ES of the other 9 shots. Hmmmmmm.........

    Larry- I have a 2006 Alliant Manual and it lists a max of 6.0/GD with a 158 LSWC at 34000PSI for the .357. For the .38 spl it's 3.5/GD/158 lswc@15600PSI. For the .44 mag they use a 240 gr. Lead GC with a max load of 9.5 grs at 34800 psi. Hope this helps

    PS. Their oal with their 158 LSWC was 1.58" with a Fed 200 primer

    The use of "OAL", I'm learning more and more is a useless term unless you are using the exact same bullet. The psi is more a result of seating depth of the bullet into the case than by OAL or even weight of the bullet. Picture below is a visual demonstrating the variation in seating depth of four 240 - 260 gr cast bullets I am working with. Note in the above test the Lee 240 gr bullet gave the highest psi, higher than the 253 and 260 gr bullets because it was seated deeper. I have 3 of those bullets (out of the commercial cast GC bullet) now loaded over 8 gr (thrown) Green Dot for a side by side comparison.

    Green dot test results in 32 S&WL;

    32 S&WL with Alliant Green Dot

    PSI measured via Oehler m43 PBL using Contender 32 H&R barrel.

    Cases; R-P 32 S&WL
    Primers; CCI 500
    Bullet; Lee TL314-90-SWC
    Alloy; range lead + 2% tin
    Sized; .312
    Lube; BAC
    OAL; 1.177” with roll crimp in top lube groove

    TEST DATA;

    1.9 gr; 13,100 psi
    2.1 gr; 13,900 psi
    2.3 gr; 15.500 psi
    2.5 gr; 17,000 psi
    2.7 gr; 17,800 psi
    2.9 gr; 20,100 psi
    3.1 gr; 22,100 psi
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master


    swheeler's Avatar
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    I've used it in the 12 ga 1 1/8 oz load for decades , sweet load , I've also used it in the 9mm with cast, just ok accuracy. I would use ANY published load from any manual for green dot, just start at the START load: edit( or reduce 10% if none shown like many of these hand out reloading guides), then work up, duhh. .02

    "During the first test of the 5.5 gr load I began to have technical problems. Some loads would appear normal, some were erratic and some did not record complete data." This sounds like an equipment malfunction and should make any data collected suspect, IN A NORMAL WORLD
    Last edited by swheeler; 07-30-2020 at 09:56 PM.
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  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    It works in anything which Red Dot can be used. If you can find the Castpics link to the powder manuals they have data in them. You CAN use Red Dot data for metallic cartridges to work up loads.

    At one time it was THE powder for 12 gauge dove loads, around these parts.

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  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master


    swheeler's Avatar
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    I wonder how the new IMR GREEN compares. I'll bet if there's any on the shelves it will get tried now.
    Charter Member #148

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by swheeler View Post
    I've used it in the 12 ga 1 1/8 oz load for decades , sweet load , I've also used it in the 9mm with cast, just ok accuracy. I would use ANY published load from any manual for green dot, just start at the START load, then work up, duhh. .02


    Not good advice, down right dangerous actually if using the older Hercules "manual" [actually it's a "Smokeless Powder Guide"]. First of all it does list a "start load", only one load. Second, several of the cartridge loads listed with GD will give very high excessive pressure as related in my earlier post.

    DO NOT USE THIS DATA from this older Hercules guide for Green Dot Powder as there are numerous unsafe loads. Use newer Alliant data or that from newer manuals, where listed, that have pressure tested loads like Lyman's #3 and #4 CBH.

    Attachment 265389
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check