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Thread: ARs and lead

  1. #21
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    80
    LONG POST WARNING
    Have built AR 15s in TAC 20, 204 Ruger, 223/5.56, 22 Nosler, 5.7×28, 6mm×45, TAC 6 (6mm×6.8), 243 WSSM, 6.5 Grendel (without JP High Pressure Bolts just a broken rifle at worst possible moment), 6.5×6.8 spc (what the 6.5 Grendel wishes it was), 270 AR, 6.8 spc II, 300 Whisper/Black Out, 300 OSSM, 7.62×39 (only build on lowers that accept AK magazines or will have to do a lot of tweaking to make rifle & mags work together) and 458 SOCOM plus a few others memory is vapor locking on. Most of the odd balls (always built in minimum of pairs to compare different configurations) have long been torn down for parts with barrels sold to other nut cases. None of the 204 cartridges remain, 6.5 Grendels are long gone as tired of replacing bolts till tried JP bolts but had built a pair of 6.5×6.8 spc by then and sold the barrel/bolts to Grendel fan boys and the 300 Whisper/Black Outs are gone. Public range near me witnessed two KaBooms in an hour, range master told me was common as guys whow owNed 5.56 rifles and 300 BOs were sharing lanes, many of the 300 BO shooters were using converted 5.56 headstamp brass and invariably one of the 5.56 shooters would pick up a magazine seeing 5.56 headstamp but not noticing fat bullet then second squeeze of trigger... KaBoom. Became an every weekend regular thing and most week days enough I just eliminated it from my selection even though I have decades of keeping wildcat ammo formed from parent cases segregated. Since had a pair of nicely working 7.62×39s 300 Whisper was redundant.

    Currently have TAC 6, 6.5×6.8 spc and 270 AR as my remaining wildcats. My primary AR 15s are a large pile of 223/5.56s, half dozen 22 Noslers, big pile of 6.8 spc IIs and four 458 SOCOMs. Wife uses 5.7×28, 223/5.56 and 7.62×39. Have tried a zillion variations of cast in 223/5.56 to finally admit a 10/22 with 1:9 twist barrel shooting Aguila 60 grain Sniper Subsonic ammo does 850 to 90% of anything can do in a 5.56 and do not have cycling issues. I do have drawing/trim dies to make jackets out of all my spent rimfire cases which use cast cores to make 57 grain JSPs. Can push them fast, no leading but they blow up on impact making them good for varmints and shooting steel. Have three 6.8 spc II builds with 1:9 twist barrels for subsonic loads which shoot cast pretty well but just do not do either as well as would like so mostly live as vault queens and shoot Speer 90 grain TNTs for training as are cheap in 650 round value boxes. Same with 5.56, Hornady 62 grain FMJBTs in 2,500 round bulk packs are so cheap it's not worth trying to shoot cast nor really fooling with my swaged boots which I save in five gallon buckets in case of shortages like Sandy Hook.

    That out of the way a 160 grain cast gas check boolit loaded in 7.62×39 is a stunning round and what the wife does majority of her AR, AK and SKS training with because she knows how cheap they are. We reload them in both brass boxer cases for ARs and copper was steel Berdan cases for combloc rifles. If want a true cheap to run AR 7.62×39 with AK magazine lower receiver, AK magazines and a metric ton of 160 grain cast using home punched gas checks is the way to go. Next up loading 500 grain cast boolits for the 458 SOCOMs (shoot 90% subsonic loads in 458) deliver a serious thump with muzzle velocity just under 1,050 fps. Generally use 550 grain JSPs for defensive work which means the 500 grain cast gas check is darn near spot on with my defensive loads and cost is dirt cheap. For me these are my two cast boolit AR 15 chassis selections. If still had 300 Whispers would shoot cast as they liked them before gave up on supporting them.

    In AR 10s have builds in 6XC, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 7mm-08, 7.62×51 and 338 Federal. My favorite of these for pure performance is now the 6.5 PRC which has put my 6.5 Creeds in the back seat. For long distance paper punching or coyote size varmints the 6XCs are king. For cast boolits the 7.62×51s will shoot 180, 200 and 220 grain cast gas check slightly reduced velocity loads very well with gas block adjustment. Then comes the 338 Federals that love cast boolits for both subsonic and near full power loads. Can take the 338s out on a hog hunt using their 315 grain flat nose boolit which drops hogs like God hit them with a sledge hammer. Only issue is not a gas check boolit and if shoot gun hot will begin to lead. Where I live a half dozen hogs are about all see so the 315 grain boolits without gas checks will lead if run barrel too hot so can switch to 255 grain gas check boolits. Since some of the bigger hogs can be tough to sit down without a perfectly placed hit have tended to use a 7.62×51 AR 10, M1a/M14, HK 91/G3 or other medium battle rifle can get off twenty rounds, reload and keep blasting using a premium bonded commercial bullet though when around home have used enough cast to know they can do the job.

    That said one hunt on a whim I threw a entry level thermal scope on one of my AR 15 458 SOCOMs (10.5" barrel with huge 3"×10" suppressor to hold as much of the expanding gasses as possible for low noise signature) sighted it in for NOE 600 grain gas check MOAB boolits before leaving. Used linotype alloy making the boolits and used commercially made copper gas checks. Was a trip where my bad back was aching and trying to support a full size MBR unsupported when trying to chase a big running herd was really wearing on me so laid down my AR 10, picked up the little SBR which got some comments (guess most assumed 5.56) to discover the 600 grain MOABs were deadly quiet and even poorly placed shots were putting hogs down. A running hog when hit would usually go head first in the dirt then flip over on its back unable to move even if not killed. If hit shoulders broke both down and if hit rear hips would break every bone and it was no longer moving. Rifle was so quiet compared to all the 7.62 AR 10s many were about to make a shot when their target dropped DRT and didn't understand because did not hear the shot fired. I imagine 375 SOCOM and 350 Legend would make good AR 15 cast boolit rifles but yet to build and test those cartridges yet.

    Bottom line whether AR 15 or AR 10 my feeling is if using the gun to take game you need 30 caliber or larger bore cartridge. The great thing about ARs is the ease of finding parts for about any cartridge gun you may want or have one of many companies punch whatever reamer you want into a blank then profile to your desires. Have been casting boolits since age 12 and my primary centerfire rifle was a lever action 35 Remimgton. Discovered real fast a 0.357" boolit whether poured from a pistol or large heavy rifle mold could be made to work for something. On my list of barrels to buy when find at a deal are 358 Yeti, 375 SOCOM and have a pile of commercially cast boolits plus big box of 50 Beowolf brass from an estate sale that needs a rifle to burn it up but have not made time to build one yet as would then have to buy or build a suppressor as largest bore can I own is 0.460" maximum projectile. The concern about bullet lube in gas system is a non-issue, never had a problem and mostly use Superlative Arms Gas Bleed Off Adjustable or basic cheap block with properly sized gas port in the barrel.

    Build parts seem to still be plentiful and prices not gone up if look around especially on bigger bore less popular cartridges. Build something in the 30 caliber range, most of us have 30 caliber heavy boolit molds already and start lobbing heavy lead boolits. I still don't understand why people run out of ammo and components every shortage. I am still loading some components purchased for the anticipated Y2K shortage over twenty years ago and all else loading currently has been in stock a decade. I began hoarding in the 1970s and always try to not only have enough to survive a shortage but share with friends or even last a supreme ban. Dems have tried to attach H.R. 5717 to every Chinese Flu stimulus bill as had no luck with it otherwise since drafted. If Slow Joe were to win he will sign an executive order in matter of weeks so strong it will go to Supreme Court to be overthrown but while that process takes place H.R. 5717 or similar bill will pass and those without will likely be without for life. He has already named a person to be in charge of outlawing semi automatic firearms and increasing cost of ammo most can't afford to ever buy or shoot in volume. Pray Joe loses because if your short now you may never see prices and availability stabilize again.

    I buy powder and primers every month except in midst of panics even with a twenty year stockpile or better sto red in four locations so cant loose all in a fire or theft. Even with a locker of primers purchased when were under $10 per 1,000 was still buying more monthly till March. Also purchased several 32 pound canisters of powder even with two OSHA fire lockers packed full in February as saw this panic coming. Was buying loaded Lake City M193 at 32 cents per round up till early March and M855 for 35 cents per round. From Christmas till price went over 42 cents per round for 5l56 added another 15,000 rounds of commercially loaded rifle ammo plus even more rimfire and odds are will not live long enough to shoot it all but want my heirs to have ammo for the guns am willing to them. Guns are useless without ammo and 2nd Amendment guarantees right to bear arms but does not stop government from adding a 200% tax to ammo so only military, police and billionaires can afford to shoot. I purchased three pallets of ammo (1 5.56 M855, 1 7.62 M80 and one mixed in 1999 and still have half stored back) in 1999. They do not have to take our guns but if you have no ammo they don't even make a good bat or a spear. Why did folks not learn during Sandy Hook and buy a metric ton of components and ammo while it was dirt cheap past three or four years? Was able to buy 5,000 rounds of Eley 38 grain Match rimfire for same ten cents a round in May but it's gone now as panic buyers finally started buying match rimfire. Midway had 1,200 round cans of M855 for $599 late at mid May as I purchased two cans for my brothers grand kids to shoot after I am dead. If Trump wins ammo will stabilize and any that have not learned from Sandy Hook and Chinese Flu better learn as the Dems will take the hill in 2024 most likely and it will be game over.

    I would rather have one or two rifles with 20,000 rounds per gun than two vaults filled with guns and only a couple thousand total rounds. Eventually government will figure out raising tax on ammo to point most can't afford and execute it they won't have to take your guns. Will just be a sculpture to hang on the wall with one bullet like Barney Fife for an emergency. I have an indoor pistol range at work usually shoot 250 to 400 rounds per week. Have an outdoor range close to home and shoot a couple days a week averaging 200 to 300 rounds. For now have parked my 6.8s and 22 Noslers for training and shoot 5.56 as uses 30% less powder. Have gone from 90% 45 acp pistol half my training rounds are 9mm to conserve powder. Still train a bit with powder hogs but realize this shortage may outlast Sandy Hook because of plant closures world wide and shipping all messed up then bans on Chinese goods keeps cheap Chinese ammo out of the country which means the Walmart guys had to buy American made till it is short. Sellier & Belliot (sp) is about to bring a new production plant online in U.S. which will help some and all are running as many shifts as possible but people like me are always lurking to buy all they can when see it. Am now buying from other hoarders on groups like this just as insurance. My work range and home range all bullets are fired into bullet traps so can recover 90% of my lead to recycle. Think by the decade or more, not by the month or year when things stabilize or may not be able to wait out the next shortage as may be a lifetime deal.
    For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions. 2 Timothy 4:3

  2. #22
    Boolit Master armoredman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Casa Grande, AZ
    Posts
    1,917
    "people like me are always lurking to buy all they can when see it"
    Yep, ain't that the truth of the matter. I would have to pay scalper prices due to hoarders lining up at dawn when the store opens...and I have to go to work. Fortunately I found some good people to trade with and both sides came out feeling good about the deals, so I can still shoot for some time without a worry, but when I hear of people saying they snag up every scrap they can no matter what...yeah, thanks. I know some people who just got into shooting right before the crunch time, no time to take advantage of the "salad days", and they have maybe enough to fill a few magazines. I'll help where I can.
    On the flip side thanks for the info on the .308 boolits - I have a buddy who might want to try some cast reloads in his AR-10. If I can find a mould I will do what I can to help my friends.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check