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Thread: ARs and lead

  1. #1
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    ARs and lead

    Is the advantage just that you don't have to buy jacketed bullets?

    .223 jacketed bullets are so cheap it's hard for me to see an advantage to pouring bullets for an AR.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    Well, you are 100% correct 2 months ago... but go ahead and try to find bulk quantities of cheap 55gr FMJ's and SPs this week. Everywhere is dry or they are gouging.

    I gave up on the cast bullet AR earlier this year because I did find 8 cents per bullet 55gr soft points. But now I'm down to 1200 of them. So it's time to get started with casting the 556

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    dog mower, good info there, I have yet to try cast in an AR, have a mp mold from old group buy but have yet to use it,
    Are you powder coating? I was concerned about bullet lube gunking up the gas tube.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    yes. I PC everything I shoot cast. I use the Eastwood Ford Light Blue and the shake and bake method.
    Even if you do get gunk in the gas tube, you can always hit it with a blast of brake parts cleaner (cheap if you get the Wal-mart brand)
    Worst case scenario you can get long pipe cleaners made for cleaning gas tubes and scrub it out manually.
    I shoot cast in MANY calibers for the AR - 300 bo, 6.8 spc, 50 beo, 458 socom, 450 BM, 7.62 x 39, and have never had issues with blocked gas tubes.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    I had not thought about lube in the gas tube. glad you brought that up. Personally, I am going with the same PC method as dogmower. Ford blue, traffic purple, or John Deere green.

    My price threshold for 224 jacketed bullets that I use for plinking or 100 yard CMP rifle practice is $0.10 per bullet. Hornady #2266 55gr SP gives me 1 moa in my ARs at 100 yards. Sub moa with my CZ 527.

    Now with the ammo and reloading panic, anything that used to be below that price is now out of stock. Long range target bullets are still available, but not the 100 yard stuff. Which is a shame. In my area, it's a treat to be able to shoot out to 200 yards. So any of those fancy bullets don't really provide any benefit at short distances.

    I should mention that there are 2 places I know of that are still selling the bulk .224s but they have increased prices from 0.089 per bullet to 0.14 per bullet. And I would rather cast than support that practice. When you purchase by the case (6000), that type of increase is unreasonable.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master elmacgyver0's Avatar
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    If I were going to be shooting a bunch of 5.56 mm I think I would be looking to buy or make swageing dies and use .22 RF brass for jackets.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Dapaki's Avatar
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    I cast and shoot lead PC in my AR, Mini-14 and Handi because I like making as many of the components myself that I can. I can also shoot a lot more and I also dont have to worry about my mild steel targets at 50 yards.

    I just shot 35 rounds of cast .224 boolits yesterday and I got 1" groups. They still help with trigger control, drills, sighting and holdover, very valuable to keep us shooting daily.
    Last edited by Dapaki; 08-13-2020 at 01:43 AM.

  8. #8
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    tomme boy's Avatar
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    The gas tube is self cleaning. You don't have to worry about lube getting in it.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    I use cast/PC exclusively for my 9x39 & 458socom ARs
    ...Speak softly & carry a big stick...

  10. #10
    Boolit Master trapper9260's Avatar
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    I shoot cast in my AR -10 308 win and I do not see a problem . I clean the gun after use anyways . I do the size and lube , no powder coating.
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I bought a swage press. 22lr is everywhere. Free jackets. The set up is kind of expensive but now I can make most things myself. Remember how they got rid of Black Tallons. They taxed them to death. If they can't ban AR 15s they may try to tax the ammo and components to death.

  12. #12
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    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatanka View Post
    The last time I heard that, Secdef was saying "if they needed chrome lined chambers, they'd have been designed with chrome lined chambers."
    Can't say that has much to do with the gas tubes being self cleaning(?), however I do appreciate the context.....

    I've shot a bit of cast bullets through various AR/M16s (223/5.56) over the years but can't say I've shot "a lot" of them. Never had any problems with lead or lube in the any of the gas tubes. Even have shot a few PC'd cast through my AR w/o any problems assiciated with the gas tube clogging.

    What I have shot a lot of through AR/M16s a lot of is 22LR using the M261 device. At the SF company I was in and worked full time at we had a nice indoor range. We used the M261 devices shooting thousands of round of Winchester "White Box" 22LR match through them. When we changed from the M16A1 to the M16A2 we kept two of the M16A1s there for use with the M261 device for practice and qualification. There was a 50' target issued for such. Never had any problems. It states in the manual for use after extensive firing of 22LR in the M16A1 that the gas tube may become clogged. Stated procedure for clearing the clog was to simply fire service M193 as that would clear/clean out the gas tube. Annually we took the two M16A1s to the range with use and even after thousands of 22LR through them never once stuttered when M193 was fired.

    BTW; we preferred the M16A1s for use with the M261 device because the 12" twist was much more accuracy friendly than the 7" twist of the M16A2s. I use the M261 device with my own shooter AR with M16 upper having a 20" barrel with 12" twist. I've shot several "bricks" of 22LR through it w/o any lead or lube problems in the gas tube. It always functions perfectly when I switch back to my M193 equivalent load or my hunting load (Speer 52 gr HP over 26.5 gr H335).
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  13. #13
    Boolit Master dkf's Avatar
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    The Chrome lining of the chambers and bores was not really for easy or elimination of cleaning. It was primarily for corrosion prevention. In the hot and wet environments like seen in Vietnam the CL helped considerably. The government poo pooed on the CL because they added more cost. There was entities within the government /military that wanted the rifle to fail and did what they could to make it fail. At the expense of many American lives.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatanka View Post
    Is the advantage just that you don't have to buy jacketed bullets?

    .223 jacketed bullets are so cheap it's hard for me to see an advantage to pouring bullets for an AR.
    Why would there NEED to be an advantage?

    I don’t think I’ve saved a dime since I started reloading and then casting. There’s always something else I’ll spent any saved moneys on. Any money I save on bullets I’m sure goes right back into the hobby SOMEWHERE. I’m not keeping track that’s for sure.

    What I do know for sure is I’m not hurting when there’s any sort of projectile shortage. Makes me just a hair more self sufficient. I use less powder when loading cast as well. The economics are there I just don’t keep track.

    The economics are undoubtedly in favor of cast even if we’re only talking 5 cents a round difference. Adds up.

    Economics aside though, back to the advantages...

    I enjoy the process more with cast. That’s the only advantage I really need.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    I think if you cast you tend to cast for everything at least to the point of finding a load that works. i was gifted 1500 .225" cast bullets sized and lubed ......so i just had to give it a run. i used H4895 and bumped the powder charge until I got reliable function.
    It was a surprising low charge. 60gn small flat nose bullet. Dont recall the powder charge but IIRC it was a good 4 grains less than max?
    I cleaned the 16" cabine with 1 /9 twist loaded up 500 and had some fun. I had a touch of lead build up on the feed ramps where that little edge of the flat nose would hit.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    So i’ve Read this thread and looked at the stickys because I have been looking around for a cast bullet recommendation to attempt to load some 5.56/223 Remington for an M4. Based on some comments I figured I would powder coat them. Which bullet do you recommend? I like singe or double cavities. Thanks.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Dapaki's Avatar
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    The LEE mold is good, makes some nice boolits.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master armoredman's Avatar
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    The BATOR one? I had good luck with those in the BREN 805. I haven't tried cast in my AR yet, no primers left anyway.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have shot over 1000 of the NOE 60 Rn over 18 of H335 in the past month.... they shoot decent enough to plink and practice with
    Attachment 267117

    That’s at 100 with a cheap AR with a 1-4x scope I was getting around 2150fps with full function

    These are PCed sized to 225 with no GC

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomme boy View Post
    The gas tube is self cleaning. You don't have to worry about lube getting in it.
    thats correct. Ive shot at least 5000 cast loads in my beo and on top of that thousands of jacketed and never had any problems with the gas tube. In all my years of shooting ars ive never had a gas tube cause me problems

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check