Smoothbore - Rifled Slugs - Cleaning - Accuracy ??

[W.R.Buchanan]

Do watch it closely, If you blow up that nice shotgun we will hate you! Also you need to look into Vang Comp. Hans Vang is THE Guru of Rem 870 Police Shotguns and has been for 30+ years. They also do Mossbergs.

Both my Mossbergs have Vang Comped barrels and they place 00 Buck into 7" at 25 yards

www.vangcomp.com

Randy

[faustus]

Do watch it closely, If you blow up that nice shotgun we will hate you! Also you need to look into Vang Comp. Hans Vang is THE Guru of Rem 870 Police Shotguns and has been for 30+ years. They also do Mossbergs.

Both my Mossbergs have Vang Comped barrels and they place 00 Buck into 7" at 25 yards

www.vangcomp.com

Randy

Thanks Randy.

Well, I am happy with the groups I am getting with the Federal Flightcontrol buckshot. I am getting something similar to this ..... that was out of my Tac-14 Marine with Cylinder bore .... around a 4" to 5" pattern at 20 meters/yards ....

(that circle is a 9" paper plate)




But I was wondering about how the lengthening of the forcing cone of the Vang Comp treatment would affect accuracy with slugs?

I was actually considering getting it done, but could not find any reliable info on slug accuracy out of Vang Comped barrel ......

Has anybody any experience?
What are the slug groups you can get out of a Vang Comped barrel?

[megasupermagnum]

The whole secret to Vang Comp improved patterns, is that they give the barrel an improved cylinder choke. Nothing more, nothing less. I've not heard anything really good or bad about lengthened forcing cones. They seem to me just one aspect that doesn't make a ton of difference either way. Some claim they make the recoil pulse longer is about it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK guys,,, I will explain this again. The Vang Comp Process Consists of,,,

1. Lengthening the Forcing Cone to @3" from 3/4" this smooths out the recoil impulse and it is very noticeable when you fire lots of rounds from a light shotgun like an 870 or M500. It was originally a Trap Shooting Mod to Barrels.

2. Back Boring the barrel from .729/.730 to .745. This cuts down on the Back Pressure and also reduces the Recoil. Note: My Browning Citori XT Trap gun came with the barrels done this way, so it is nothing new. Just the application to Combat Shotguns is unique to Vang Comp.

3. The last 2" of the Reamer used is tapered back down to .730 thus imparting a choke similar to IC on the Barrel. This closes the Patterns down dramatically. Both my guns (20" M500 and 18" M500) shoot 00 Buck patterns into 7" at 25 yards. This makes Buckshot a viable option out to 50 yards.

With Flight Control Wads it would be even tighter!

4. 31 holes drilled on either side of the Front Sight 62 total, reduces muzzle rise.

Please note: ALL of this works exactly as advertised ! and everyone who has shot my guns next to theirs can immediately tell the difference.

And Hans Vang and his company have done literally thousands of Police Shotguns and Combat Shotguns over the last 30 years. If it didn't do anything there is no one who'd spend the $255 to get it done.

He is the Undisputed GURU of Police Shotguns. www.vangcomp.com

Slug accuracy is shown in the picture below which was shot at 50 yards offhand with Federal Low Recoil Slugs (Blue Hulls) Lee 1oz. Slugs shoot about the same as do Pumpkin Balls.

Hope this answers the question of what this process is and what it does.

Randy

[faustus]

So, I did an experiment and to see what would happen if I did not clean my barrel. And it did not take too long to realize …

I shot around 50 – 80 Sellier & Bellot Sport slugs through the gun and never cleaned the barrel. I shot around 2 to 3 boxes of those slugs …. and some Federals.

The barrel was heavily leaded, and strips of lead were coming off and only to be replaced with another layer.


Here are my findings:

1.) Groups did open up with a leaded barrel and after around 20 to 30 slugs through the barrel.
2.) I got random flyers with a leaded barrel.
3.) And point of aim shifted. Now, I am not 100% sure that this was due to the leading, or if this is due to my setup. My rear ghost ring is fixed to the receiver, and my front sight is fixed to the barrel … and there is around a 1mm wiggle (1/32” to 1/16”) and until I screw the magazine cap tight. So, when i take the barrel off the gun ... and put it back, there is a chance that the point of impact has shifted.



I started out with a clean barrel and got a groups like this .....



Down the road and with a leaded barrel I got some flyers …



Point of impact shifted ….



Groups opened up …



And after a long cleaning session … I was getting this again ....



Voila ....

[centershot]

Well, faustus, now you know for certain what your gun will do w/o cleaning AND how long you can go between cleanings. I still think firelapping would help this situation.

[longbow]

To be honest, I would likely use a wheel cylinder hone on an extension to smooth and even out the bore.. or as suggested above, try fire lapping.

That and adding some lubes to the slug loads. Not easy with factory loaded slugs but if roll crimped you could drip or brush some relatively thin LLA or similar lubes over the nose of the slug with the intent of it running down inside so adding some lubes to the bearing surface.

Home loaded slugs can be tumble lubed or lubed felt wad added to the wad column.

Hmmmm... some powdered graphite shaken down inside might work with roll crimped factory slugs. That would be easy to try anyway.

Longbow

[Maven]

As one who has been trying to achieve some semblance of accuracy with my 20ga. (.618" - .619") NW trade gun replica (flintlock; no rear sight), I'm impressed with faustus' groups!

[longbow]

Yes, despite the rough bore and leading groups are pretty darn good!

For Maven, if you haven't seen it

http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html

Might be some useful info. Waksupi and others get very good accuracy to 75 yards or so with muzzleloading smoothbore.

I think same issues apply regardless of smoothbore type... if the slug or ball is centered solidly in the bore accuracy can be very good out to at least 50 yards.

I've found that a loose full bore shotgun slug at just a thou or two under bore size accuracy is poor compared to a tight fitting slug. Since faustus is getting leading full length of his bore the slugs must be "tight" or are slugging up to bore diameter. That is likely the reason for good groups even with leading.

[tomme boy]

Coat the slugs with thinned alox. I had one do exactly like yours is doing. I took the factory slugs and put 2-3 drops of thinned alox on the front of the slug and let it dry for a couple weeks. It dramatically reduced the amount of leading.

[Maven]

Thanks for that, longbow! Thus far, my most consistent accuracy has been with a patched RB (ball can be .597" - .603" while patch thickness can be .014" - .018") @ 25 yd., but I'd like to try that combination @ 50 yd. with 60 - 70gr. FFg. Btw, I had success similar to faustus @ 50 yd. last week using a bore diameter (.618") RB and hand rolled tow wads fore & aft with larger amounts of faster FFFg, but couldn't duplicate it with the FFg.