Smoothbore - Rifled Slugs - Cleaning - Accuracy ??

[faustus]

I thought I ask the pros .....

Whenever I get back home from a slug shooting session ... and where I put lets say 20+ Foster slugs (or full bore slugs) through the gun ... my smoothbore barrel looks like a lead pipe.

I mean the barrel is literally coated with lead on the inside.

And when I take a bronze brush with steel wool on a drill to clean the barrel ... lead flakes come out in abundance ... and it takes me 4 to 6 passes with the drill to get the barrel half way clean.

Now I am wondering ... how will cleaning or not cleaning affect accuracy? Is cleaning even necessary .... ?

What is your experience?

[Outpost75]

Ordinary Foster-type slugs are often not lubricated, depending upon the brand. I don't know about the CIL slugs you get in the Great White North. The card and fiber wad column usually is waxed, and is supposed to sweep fouling from the bore. It does in short barrels, but is less effective in longer ones. Back in the 1980s I shot a lot of slugs from police riot guns, mostly Remington 870s, but also Ithaca 37s and a few Winchester Model 12s.

Back then we got best accuracy with improved cylinder choke with the Winchester brand of slugs, which were the largest in diameter (.735"). Winchester slugs were also lubricated with a clear dry wax similar to that used on their .22 LR ammunition. The bores didn't lead with Winchester ammo. Firing an open-sighted "deer slayer" barrel off sandbags you could produce 3-4" five-shot 50-yard groups pretty much on demand over a long string of fire. FBI firearms unit instructor cadre could pick which pane of a residential window they wanted to hit at 100 yards and could keep 4 out of 5 rounds on a military "E" silhouette at 200 yards, using a modified sight picture. We also tested a Ferret barricade penetrating CS gas round which shot to the same point of impact, would shoot through car doors and was "combat accurate" (8x10" window pane) at 100 yards. RWS-Brenneke slugs also shot well in brief tests being as accurate as Winchester and better than Federal or Remington of that era.

Remington and Federal slugs produced in the 1980s were only .690-.700" diameter and would fall through a full choke of their own weight. They were not lubricated other than the Remington slugs having a light tumble in graphite. The Remington slugs produced light leading, but it didn't seem to impair accuracy, they'd produce 4-5" five-shot groups at 50 yards, the Federals then 5-6".

We shared our data with the ammunition manufacturers and Federal increased the diameter of their slugs after that, but they were not lubricated.

I can't speak to current slug loads. I would cut a sample round apart, measure its diameter and scratch the slug with your thumbnail. You want the slug dead-soft, and of a diameter to be a light sliding fit in the shotgun bore. If the slug drops through the barrel of its own weight, it is too small. If the soft lead slug does not fall through the choke, no worries, it will squeeze down. For hunting purposes I smear a pea-sized dab of any common automotive grease, Vaseline, or soft bullet lube over the slug. This waterproofs the cartridge and lubricates the slug to prevent leading. I can't say that it helps accuracy, but it doesn't hurt.

[faustus]

Thanks Outpost75 for the input. That was interesting ...

Currently I am using mostly S&B and Federal Truball slugs ... and no, they are not lubed.

The S&B slugs are not as accurate .... but with the Federal TruBall slugs I am getting 4" groups at 100 yards. And I am happy with that result ...

But the cleaning of the leaded barrel every time is just a pain ....

... and I am wondering if it is even necessary??

Maybe I need to do a test .... run 50 slugs through my gun and try 100 meter from benchrest again .... and see if I can still shoot those groups.

----------------------

Ok, I am adding a bit more infos on my setup.


The gun is an 870P with ghost rings and fixed Improved Cylinder choke.





And here two images of the S&B and Federal Truball slugs








And here the sort of groups I get with the Federal TruBalls ....

[Outpost75]

That's good iron-sight accuracy. The plastic wad column vs. the old school compressed wood fiber and wax one explains the leading. I would try smearing a wee bit of grease over the slug and see if that causes fliers in your groups, or if it settles down into tighter one after the bore has been conditioned.

[littlejack]

Faustus
I would be best to "not" use steel wool on the bore to remove the lead. Your best bet would be to use the "Chore Boy" 100% copper scrubbers. They are softer than the barrel steel, and will not ruin the bore of your shotgun. A lot of folks here, including myself, use the chore boy product to scrub the bores free of lead in their firearms. If you buy one, you can find the end of the ribbon, and it will unravel while you are wrapping it around the bronze brush. (Do not get the copper coated steel).
Regards

[littlejack]

P.S.
Nice groups!

[kenblacksmith]

Used to cary a few of these in an old Savage 24 Camper model. Shot a few yotes over the years with them, 50yrd shots they work fine and to great effect.

[faustus]

Faustus
I would be best to "not" use steel wool on the bore to remove the lead. Your best bet would be to use the "Chore Boy" 100% copper scrubbers. They are softer than the barrel steel, and will not ruin the bore of your shotgun. A lot of folks here, including myself, use the chore boy product to scrub the bores free of lead in their firearms. If you buy one, you can find the end of the ribbon, and it will unravel while you are wrapping it around the bronze brush. (Do not get the copper coated steel).
Regards

Littlejack, thanks for the input ...

The history with the barrel on that gun is that it came from the factory unpolished. Might have been an oversight by Remington or at the time they decided to cut costs with the 870 Police models ... I don't know. But I could stick my little finger into the muzzle ... and I could feel the tool marks.

So, I used steel wool on a brush and drill to polish the barrel .... and I continued to use this method for cleaning. But I was wondering about eventual wear ... and last week actually ... I switched to extra fine brass wool ....

[gpidaho]

All my full bore slugs and many of the slugs I place in plastic wads are powder coated. Leading has disappeared. Foster slugs can be a problem as they are generally too small for the bore and in my experience require some choke. Gp

[megasupermagnum]

Wow, that's a tough call. A barrel should not be leading like that, none of mine do. I could put 100 rounds through it, and maybe get a tiny bit of lead, but certainly not coated from end to end.

But being as yours seems to be WAY more than average accuracy, I would be inclined just to leave it. To find out if the fouling has any effect on accuracy, you would have to try for yourself. All of mine shoot better fouled. For cleaning, one expedient I use sometimes is an old rod with the handle cut off, and I chuck that in a hand drill, likely same as you do. I wouldn't use steel wool though, it can work to polish your bore, but may be polishing unevenly if used over time. If a copper brush alone wont do it, wrap it in copper chore boy.

[littlejack]

It sounds to me, from what you discribed about the bore being "unpolished", that that is probably the main factor causing your leading issue.

[faustus]

It sounds to me, from what you discribed about the bore being "unpolished", that that is probably the main factor causing your leading issue.

Littlejack,

you might be right .... and I don't know.

I have been shooting this gun for 4 years now ... and after each shooting session, I cleaned the gun with a drill and steel wool on a brass brush. I would imagine that this barrel ... and after 4 years of shooting and cleaning ... is polished .. polished ... polished ... polished ... by now ... but maybe it is not ... ??

All i can say is, that I cant feel any tool marks any more at the muzzle ... and the barrel looks shiny shiny after cleaning.

And that is maybe one of the reasons ... why I am reaching out on this forum ... and to see what other people have experienced and with respect to full bore slugs, leading, cleaning and accuracy ... and to tap into this collective experience ... and to see if there is a general consensus ...

Maybe my obsession with a clean barrel .... is ... well ... maybe is unfounded and not needed ...??

Maybe a leaded smoothbore barrel is a good thing for accuracy .... ??

I just haven't done my tests yet with regards to this ... and I was hoping that the collective experience on here ... maybe has some answers ...

I am happy with the accuracy of that gun and ammo combination.

I am just not happy with the amount of cleaning that I am doing ....

[faustus]

...
All of mine shoot better fouled.
...

Megasupermagnum, thanks for sharing ... now that is interesting!!!

[Hogtamer]

That's a fine weapon with good sights and good looking targets! Those truball slugs are hard to beat out of a smoothbore. As to the leading......Shoot it until the target tells you to clean it.

[littlejack]

I understand sir.

[longbow]

I have never had leading problems in any of my shotguns shooting Foster slugs. Generally factory Foster slugs are very soft if not pure lead and while in the past they were very undersize in my experience they are not after firing! I have recovered many soft Foster slugs and they may well have started oiut under bore diameter but they certainly weren't when they left the muzzle.

I was casting Lyman Fosters from pure lead using Lyman book load data and shooting into soft snow. My mould drops 0.705" slugs that rattle down the bore. After recovery from show they are bore diameter.

All of my shotguns have very smooth/polished bores so maybe that's why they don't lead. Also, I mostly shoot wheelweight slugs now so that is likely the reason in that the harder lead doesn't rub off on the bore. I do see others complaining of leading using factory Foster slugs too though.

Hard to fix factory loads if they are causing grief but home cast slugs can be tumble lubed or you can use a lubed felt of fiber wad under the slug to leave lube in the bore for the next one. Even purchased slug you hand load can be lubed. I'd not like to see my gore caked up with lead.

And while I haven't tried Federal Tru-Ball slugs, some of the best accuracy I have seen from my smoothbore Browning was with the old Federal Foster slugs. They gave me about 6" groups at 100 yards. If I could do that with home cast Fosters I'd be a happy camper! But so far... no.

regardless of the leading you are getting the accuracy is great! I wouldn't complain about that at all. In fact Hogtamer said it... "Shoot it until the target tells you to clean it." Words to live by!

Longbow

[762 shooter]

+1 on Choreboy. I just cleaned 45 years of plastic and lead out of a 870 slug barrel.

762

[centershot]

faustus, it may be that the toolmarks you felt were (most likely) running at right angle to the bore. In polishing as you did you smoothed them but, microscopically, they are still there. It may help to fire a few "firelapping" rounds in an effort to "re-orient" the toolmarks to run with the line of the bore instead of across it. Just thinking out loud here.....

[W.R.Buchanan]

My new M500 smoothbore barrel that I had Vang Comped gets plastic fouling stuck in the barrel. I honed that barrel to a mirror finish when it came back but pretty much all of the smooth bores will get plastic buildup. Especially around ports if they are present.

I got some cleaner off Amazon recommended to me by Ranch Dog, and it dissolves the plastic pretty well. My Citori XT shaves Plastic Wads like a Cheese Grater, and there ends up being slivers of the plastic stuck in the ports. This is a PITB to clean out. I used a Brush on a electric drill to do it and it still took 30 minutes. The bores on that gun are mirrors too.

Now,,, My A5 Buck Special Barrel doesn't do this at all. Go figure.

As far as leading, if you are shooting un-lubricated full bore slugs they will leave lead behind and if you don't seal with it sooner or later it will bite you. Powder Coating is a good solution.

Randy

[faustus]

Thanks everyone for sharing and chiming in.

I took a decision to try an experiment .... how long I can go and not clean that barrel ... and till accuracy is affected.

I will only oil that barrel in between shooting sessions and to avoid corrosion.

Lets see how far I get with that method ....

So, stay tuned ... I will update this thread with my results .... eventually ...