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Thread: Solid 311041 30-30 Hunting load recommendations

  1. #1
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    Solid 311041 30-30 Hunting load recommendations

    Rifle: 1:10 twist Mossberg 464 with 20" barrel.

    311041 NOE clone.

    Lube will be Carnuba blue and Hornady Gas Check.

    Game: smallish Indiana whitetails probably inside 100 yards.

    I realize the fast twist may limit velocity where accuracy will be acceptable.

    But how slow is too slow? At what impact velocity will the bullet become the proverbial icepick and result in me driving home to get my dog?

    It seems that many are using softer alloys like 50Pb/50COWW with 2% SN. I favor an alloy of 2% sn and 2% sb which is about the same hardness, but still is pretty soft.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Your 50-50, or 96-2-2 alloy will perform well at around 1600 fps, assuming that the game range is short enough to ensure an impact velocity above 1300 fps out where the deer is. Accuracy should hold in a ten-inch twist to about 1800 fps. Zero 2 inches high at 50 yards for a 125 yard zero and 150-yard point-blank range with max. 3-inch drop at 1300 fps remaining velocity, which is at the lower threshold for the bullet expanding.

    .30-30 Winchester, 170-grain Flat Point similar to #31141

    Yds.___Drop(Ins)___Vel.(fps)_Energy
    0_____-0.9852_____1799____1221
    25_____0.8919_____1705____1097
    50_____2.0211_____1615____984
    75_____2.3169_____1530____883
    100____1.6830_____1448____791
    125____0.0125_____1372____710
    150___-2.8129_____1302____640
    175___-6.9216_____1237____578
    200___-12.4497____1180____526
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I can't say much as my micro-groove Marlin does not like 311041, I believe it is too small, it must make .312", if it shoots for you it should be a great choice for deer.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    My 464 loves that boolit. I don't use wheel weights. My alloy is 60% pure and 40% hard birdshot plus a hint of extra tin for better mold fill out. Not particularly hard but useful at many velocities. Given your description of the game and the hunting conditions, my terminal ballistics tests at 40 yards indicate you will be just fine with a muzzle velocity of 1550 to 1600 fps or slightly less.
    Accuracy-wise, my 464 with that boolit at that velocity with its Skinner aperture sight will bounce one gallon paint cans at well over 200 yards with regularity off a fair rest with my aging eyes.
    My 464 has also been a real jewel for wintertime coyotes loaded with 130 gr. RFGC's from a Mihec mold at a leisurely MV of 1300 fps.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master


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    When I started deer hunting with cast, first one was with a Savage 340 in .30-30 using the 31141, older Ideal mold. I used 25 grains of an imported powder called B-West 36 which isn't available now, but burned like IMR 3031. Worked very well.

    I think Ken Waters' pet load was 26 grains of IMR 4895 with the 311041.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I have killed quite a few black tail deer with the 311041, both solid and HP'd. I found and excellent alloy for hunting to be COWWs + 2% tin then mixed 50/50 with pure lead. I let the bullets AC, GC'd with Hornady GCs and lubed with Javelina [2500+ now]. Acceptable hunting accuracy was very good in 10" twist rifles upwards of 1950 - 2000 fps. I most often use 27 - 28 gr H4895 in the 30-30.

    They gave very good terminal performance to 200 yards, and even better when HP'd 3/16" deep with the 1/8" Forster HP tool. With that soft alloy best accuracy (usually 2 - 3 moa) held for 6 - 8 shots then open up to 4 moa +/-. I learned to simply clean the barrel after each test 5 shot group or after a tube full of 7 shots. That way best accuracy was maintained. Kind of a pain when developing loads but very good for hunting. Besides, when hunting, if I hadn't killed the deer in 7 shots it was time to go home anyways...... For practice and zero bullets of just the COWW + 2% tin worked fine and held accuracy all day long.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I shoot at the Southern Indiana rifle pistol club in Borden, IN. You?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    curioushooter I believe you have a winning combination all the way around. I'm in the 50/50 + 2% camp here as I found my straight ww had too much Sb and as a result were brittle and tended to break up and gave no penetration in wet paper packs. I have not used the 311041 in 30-30 but I have in the .308. They work suburb for me and almost anyone who has tried them. I say best get your grill ready for those back straps.
    Mark 5:34 And He said to her (Jesus speaking), "Daughter, your faith has made you well. Go in peace and be healed of your affliction."

  9. #9
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    I found and excellent alloy for hunting to be COWWs + 2% tin then mixed 50/50 with pure lead.
    This is a very soft alloy. COWWs + 2% then mixed 50/50 should be 97.25% Pb, 1.25% Sn, 1.5% Sb. I'd be surprised if that had a BHN of 10. COWWs + 2% Sn should be 94.5% Pb, 2.5% Sn, 3% Sb. The alloy I've been using for basically all handgunning lately (and have cast into 1# ingots) has been 96% Pb, 2% Sn and 2% Sb. No wheelweights involved and everything measured on a scale. Aircooled it gets BHN ~11 day of rising to ~12 in a couple weeks maybe. I would think that a harder alloy thank this would really be needed, but I will start with it and see what happens.

    I may even put one into gel at 1300-1400 FPS to see if it mushrooms.

    Any recommendations as to powder? The Lyman #4 Cast Manual shows the following powders that I have with 311041: IMR 3031, IMR 4198, Alliant 2400, and Unique. I was thinking start with the 4198?

    Thanks!

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    20 years or so ago I hunted for several years with a Win M94 shooting cast bullets from an old 31141 mold. Alloy was basically ww+tin. I water dropped from a hot mold and tumble lubed with Lee Alox after sizing to .310. I used H4895 or 3031 depending on which I had at the time, loads ran 1950-2000 fps. Killed several whitetails with those loads with no rodeos. Finally sold the rifle because I got tired of the 20 lb trigger.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master


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    It would be hard to go wrong with IMR3031 in your application. Probably somewhere between 25 and maybe up to 28 grains is where I would look for best accuracy.
    Good Luck.
    Rick

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I'm surprised the 464s are made with a 1 in 10" twist. Hasn't the .30-30 standard been 1 in 12" from the beginning?

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by richhodg66 View Post
    I'm surprised the 464s are made with a 1 in 10" twist. Hasn't the .30-30 standard been 1 in 12" from the beginning?
    Only in Winchester rifles...real Winchesters that is...
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  14. #14
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    Most 30-30s use 1:10 twist, at least in my experience (which is admittedly with no "real" Winchesters). I think it is because they use the same barrels they do for .308/30-06 etc. I am almost certain this is the reason why Mossberg does it as the company is all about economics and makes their own barrels.

    The reason why 1:10 is a common twist rate is supposedly because that's what it took to stabilize that long 220 grainer 30-40 Krag bullet at long ranges. And since they made up a bunch of bullets and the Army married itself to thirty caliber it's still that way even when the cartridges changed. It certainly doesn't take 1:10 to stabilize those 150 grain bullets in 30-06 and whatnot.

    I know a reason why some prefer the 32 Winchester Special over the 30-30 is because it uses a much slower twist rate.

    I think a 1:12 or even 1:14 may be preferable for a 30-30 carbine, where bullet weight is pretty much practically limited to 170 grains if you are like me and want the lube grooves in the neck and like things to feed reliably, but it's hard to justify changing a perfectly good barrel on a $350 rifle. Maybe if I did it myself, but not otherwise.

    With jackets 1:10 is fine. Rifle has always delivered acceptable accuracy (like 2 MOA or better sometimes) with handloaded Speer Hot Cores. I've seen guys at the range before deer seasons with bolt actions and factory ammo that was far less accurate. It does, like most lever actions, exhibit annoying POI changes due to temperature changes or something touching the mag tube. I do not know why after all these years someone hasn't had the bright idea to use a rigid mag tube screwed into the receiver like the barrel and hang the forend off that and free float the barrel. Make it out of aluminum if you think it is to heavy. Some Ithaca deerslayers are built this way and it's not a big deal.
    Last edited by curioushooter; 07-23-2020 at 11:23 AM.

  15. #15
    Boolit Bub
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    I have 2 , 30-30's , a 94 Winchester (1948) and a Marlin 336 (1970's) . The marlin shoots very accurately bullets sized .311 . The winchester prefers .310 . I have several loads that perform well . 25 grs of IMR 3031 and 26 grs of 4895 . I recently tried 9.0 grs of Unique , just for fun and was quite surprised . It had great accuracy and had plenty of power if hunting in brush country , shots limited to about 75 yds . I use the Lyman 311041 exclusively . Good Luck , Paul

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    IIRC Paco Kelly had a mod like that. Don't need speed except for drop at distance. Alloy hard enough for accuracy and making 2 holes, enough speed to get POA at what ever distance. I mostly use LeverE but 4895, 3031 all work well.
    Whatever!

  17. #17
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    I've read Paco's mod. It is the same idea but falls short of satisfactory IMO. To really do it right the receiver needs to be built up via welding (which nobody wants to do because the heat effected zone is near the chamber), then bored and tapped and the mag tube threaded and it needs to be screwed in. Then it all needs to be carefully function tested. It really should be this way from the factory, especially on all the rifles (not carbines) that have short mag tubes that only hold 3 or 4 rounds.

    One of the things I've learned is that there needs to be ENOUGH of whatever to get performance. Usually more than ENOUGH is not really an improvement. The cartridge that immediately comes to mind in this regard is 300 WIN MAG.

    But in 30 caliber, which is really a small caliber, you want mushrooming to occur. I've messed around with 32-20 in a contender with hard alloys and they do not mushroom or hardly mushroom ~1500 FPS impact velocities. These are bullets cast by Western Bullet Co and I don't know what alloy they are, but they are fairly hard. I would not think this type of load would cut the mustard...a hard 311440 (150 grains or so) impacting at 1300-1500 FPS. That is going to put a 30 caliber hole in a deer and most likely be a slow recovery process. Some of the loads I see proposed for 30-30 are in fact in the 32-20 power catergory! I have no doubt they will kill. It's a matter of how efficiently. Even terrible shot placement can result in an agonizing death by infection. I don't have time for that. I've processed deer with broadheads and bullets stuck in them that DID not kill them. I damaged a meat saw cutting into a broadhead once splitting a spine.

    That is why I want enough MV to assure mushrooming at IMPACT. This could be 100+ yards if I get a long shot. I know what speer hot cors do and they are most satisfactory. Also, I probably wont be taking the shot...it will be a new hunter...so I am being perhaps a bit overly cautious here.
    Last edited by curioushooter; 07-24-2020 at 12:39 PM.

  18. #18
    Boolit Mold Nathanj's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I've used lobogunleather's loads for the past few years they'll cut ragged hole at 100 yds if you do your part in a 94' or Savage 30-30 bolt

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by curioushooter View Post
    I've read Paco's mod. It is the same idea but falls short of satisfactory IMO. To really do it right the receiver needs to be built up via welding (which nobody wants to do because the heat effected zone is near the chamber), then bored and tapped and the mag tube threaded and it needs to be screwed in. Then it all needs to be carefully function tested. It really should be this way from the factory, especially on all the rifles (not carbines) that have short mag tubes that only hold 3 or 4 rounds.

    One of the things I've learned is that there needs to be ENOUGH of whatever to get performance. Usually more than ENOUGH is not really an improvement. The cartridge that immediately comes to mind in this regard is 300 WIN MAG.

    But in 30 caliber, which is really a small caliber, you want mushrooming to occur. I've messed around with 32-20 in a contender with hard alloys and they do not mushroom or hardly mushroom ~1500 FPS impact velocities. These are bullets cast by Western Bullet Co and I don't know what alloy they are, but they are fairly hard. I would not think this type of load would cut the mustard...a hard 311440 (150 grains or so) impacting at 1300-1500 FPS. That is going to put a 30 caliber hole in a deer and most likely be a slow recovery process. Some of the loads I see proposed for 30-30 are in fact in the 32-20 power catergory! I have no doubt they will kill. It's a matter of how efficiently. Even terrible shot placement can result in an agonizing death by infection. I don't have time for that. I've processed deer with broadheads and bullets stuck in them that DID not kill them. I damaged a meat saw cutting into a broadhead once splitting a spine.

    That is why I want enough MV to assure mushrooming at IMPACT. This could be 100+ yards if I get a long shot. I know what speer hot cors do and they are most satisfactory. Also, I probably wont be taking the shot...it will be a new hunter...so I am being perhaps a bit overly cautious here.
    Don't think you're overly cautious at all...alloy work will allow lower velocity and still get that mushroom you're hoping for in that bullet profile. If you already have them hard cast it's going to be loads with powders like 4198, 3031, 4895 maybe with fillers to get you there.

    I played with a load of 32-35 grains of 4198 in an '06 with the ranch dog 170 mold paper patched. Got to 2300-2400 fps out of my gun....but I think it needs a filler because velocities were all over the place because of the larger capacity of the 06

    Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

  20. #20
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    You might try shooting some gallon jugs full of water to catch the boolit and see how it does. Load it a little slower to account for the velocity at the range your intending to shoot.
    I shot my 450 Bushmaster into 4 jugs with a MP 320 Ruger Only boolit cast from ACWW + tin at 1700fps-ish, it busted the 4th jug, but was found in the 3rd jug. Accuracy was pretty good at 1800fps, I think I'll try it on pigs this year.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check