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Thread: Solid 311041 30-30 Hunting load recommendations

  1. #21
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    I've found that around 1600+ impact velocities virtually anything with good tin content will mushroom. There is actually a world of difference between > 1600 and <1400. I did a lot of testing last year with 357 magnum carbines and cast bullets and fully convinced myself that big bore solids are the way to go.

    You can get a mushroom that's all nice and pretty but will it go through? The more mushrooming the shallower the penetration. They are inversely related. You cannot learn this from water jugs. Which is why most people don't even think about it. Calibrated gel sobers you up quickly.

    Finding balance is difficult and I observed performance windows of only a couple hundred FPS. This is fine with handguns but not acceptable in rifles.

    Solids are very predictable. They always pass through and don't require nearly the power to perform. If the bore is big enough it makes at least that sized hole. Typically 30 caliber bullets mushroom to about 45-50 caliber. So 30-30/30-06 etc with cast is really about equivalent to 44 special/45 colt with a standard weight slug. Keith was right.

    Jackets sort of change a lot with terminal performance. They allow the use of much softer cores that mushroom at even lower impact velocities. The jackets arrest mushrooming at a certain diameter so the bullet can achieve sufficient penetration across a wide range of impact velocities.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master pls1911's Avatar
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    Richhdg66.. Just getting around to catching up on this thread. B-West 36... we called it B_ttWipe 36... it was actually a great powder, and inexpensive.
    Believe it or not, I'm still working several pounds, and wish I could get more!
    Salvaging old Marlins is not a pasttime...it's a passion

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy
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    I use a mix of old COWW, scrap from 22 LR bullet trap, and a half stick of 50/50 solder in a 20 lb pot. I honestly don't know exactly what the alloy mix is, but it kills deer (all 100 to 125 lb does so far) with complete penetration and some expansion determined by examining the wound cavity.

    I'm shooting an old H&R .30-30, 24" barrel, 1-12 twist, and snap-on forearm to give an idea about age of gun. My load is 28 grs of IMR-4895 and the 311041. Sized at 311, lubed and gas checked it weighs 183 grains. All shots to date have been 35 to 50 yards.

    One more thing- thank you Larry Gibson for the load info.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Kinda late maybe you did your hunting already, but I have a lee 170 which is very similar recovered from a deer at 1500ish fps impact vel. Alloy 2.4% antimony 1.5% tin from certified alloy. May have seen me show it in threads a while back. Shot was angled from behind the front shoulder in a line to the rear opposite thigh bone.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    So you can see very slight expansion initially then the big smear on the bottom is from wiping the thigh bone losing most of energy it had left then stopped maybe 3inches shy of exiting the rump. Hopefully this helps.

    after this i was no longer a fan of the mid weight boolits at 1700mv sort of plinking recoil loads for deer. could work if alloy is just right and soft enough and you have a perfect sideways shot with no bones in the way, but after i switched to heavy weights and around 1950mv trying to have wiggle room instead of good enough
    Last edited by bmortell; 09-30-2020 at 08:07 PM. Reason: made velocity more correct

  5. #25
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    It was 30-06, but a couple years ago I busted a 150 pound doe with a 198 grain bullet that was doing around 1900FPS at the muzzle. At 80 yards it went through a front leg without hitting bone, blew up the heart, damaged both lungs, and exited on its way to perdition. Alloy was AC COWW plus a percent or two tin and the exit was about a half inch hole in diameter, so I got some expansion. I think the difference is that my mold had about a .19" meplat. I think a 311041 is really only a hunting boolit with a very soft alloy.
    When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.

  6. #26
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    "I think a 311041 is really only a hunting boolit with a very soft alloy."

    Worked fine for me a couple of times. Cast reasonably soft, but still pushed to 1800 FPS or so. Not sure where you're getting that idea, it's quite a good hunting bullet.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by pls1911 View Post
    Richhdg66.. Just getting around to catching up on this thread. B-West 36... we called it B_ttWipe 36... it was actually a great powder, and inexpensive.
    Believe it or not, I'm still working several pounds, and wish I could get more!
    There were a few things that BW-36 was the best grouping powder I used including a Remington 722 in .300 Savage. If it was still available, it would likely be my go-to powder for medium size cases.

  8. #28
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richhodg66 View Post
    I'm surprised the 464s are made with a 1 in 10" twist. Hasn't the .30-30 standard been 1 in 12" from the beginning?
    It was common practice for many years to use military surplus, reject .30 cal. barrels which didn't gage up to produce .30 cal. sporting rifles. Marlin prior to Microgroove, H&R, Mossberg, Savage, used a great many 4-groove government form slightly oversized or slightly rough interior finish, reject Garand, 03A3 or other blanks in the postwar period, because they were cheap.

    If you check H&R or Savage .22 Hornet or .222 Remington barrels you will find a great many made from rejected M16 1:14" or 1"12" twist barrel blanks which gage a wee bit large, but "good enough for farm boys who will mostly shoot at cans."
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  9. #29
    Boolit Master Doughty's Avatar
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    brewer,
    I think the 31141 is an excellent game bullet. You just have to match the alloy to the velocity. I've shot a lot of deer / antelope with it in oven harden WWs... at 2400 fps at distances as far as 250 yards. Veral Smith got it right when he talked about "balance."
    AKA "Old Vic"
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  10. #30
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    "I think a 311041 is really only a hunting boolit with a very soft alloy."

    I've killed a lot of deer and a couple elk with the 311041out of numerous 30-30s (Winchester's with 12' twists), 308Ws (mostly with 12" twists), some .308Ws and 30-06s with 10" twist. I've used solid and HP, hard and soft alloys in them. Also killed a lot of other critters with the 311041. It is an excellent hunting bullet. I have come to prefer a softer alloy [ 97/1.5/1.5] with the bullets AC'd, GC'd and lubed with a softer lube and HP'd to 3/16" deep and driven to 1950 - 2300 fps depending on barrel twist. I also clean the barrel every 5 - 8 shots with the hunting loads which maintains the best accuracy. I consider, if the velocity is 1950+ fps, 200 yards to be the maximum range I'll shoot a game animal at. The retained velocity is sufficient for good expansion and penetration at that max range. The HP 311041s HP'd as mentioned do not "blow up" and the most often penetrate through and through even at very close range. I also prefer to put the bullet through the heart not a "behind the shoulder" shot.

    Years ago [late '60s] when I first started using the 311041 in a M94 Winchester and a 10" .308W I used straight COWW with the bullet in solid form. It killed deer w/o problems. Just not quite as quick (as in the deer often traveled farther after a similar hit) as with a softer alloy that expanded more. With that cast bullet i also discovered the adverse affect of the RPM Threshold. No matter what i did I could not get the .308W with the 10" twist to shoot as accurately above 1950 fps [got my first Oehler chronograph in the early '70s] as I could with the M94 Winchester with it's 12" twist. I didn't know, back then, about the RPM Threshold but it got me to wondering.
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 10-03-2020 at 09:27 AM.
    Larry Gibson

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  11. #31
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    Agree with Larry’s assessment very much. I’ve used 50/50 and 25/75 mix + Sn in my 94 a fair bit. Accuracy is indistinguishable between the two at 50 yds, running about 1.5” for 5 shots. Zero leading, excellent feed and ballpark 2000-2100 FPS. Splat-flop.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by curioushooter View Post

    That is why I want enough MV to assure mushrooming at IMPACT. This could be 100+ yards if I get a long shot. I know what speer hot cors do and they are most satisfactory. Also, I probably wont be taking the shot...it will be a new hunter...so I am being perhaps a bit overly cautious here.
    I read stuff like this and wonder...why? The Speer bullet you know works is less than $30/100. It can be driven at full velocity with accuracy while yielding more range and energy.

    Add in the fact this is for a new hunter and it makes little sense. If the deer is wounded and lost, the "homemade" bullet or "underpowered" load YOU made will be blamed....unjustly maybe???

    Do your friend and yourself a favor and load up those Speers. If the deer is wounded then the blame goes to that underpowered .30/30. Should have used the 45/70 after all. LOL

    One good thing about this thread is a reminder that I need to get a mold of my my .30/30's. I have three I have been keeping for SHTF in case Beto makes AR's illegal but I have less than 200 jacketed bullets for them. Need to get a cast load for them.
    Don Verna


  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy
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    Started casting a long time back and with few exceptions see no reason to rely on J-bullets for field work. Lead works. Placement can simplify things, or rely on expansion if you wish.

    311041 - 50/50 + Sn


    They shoot OK.




    That said, if one wants splat with lead there are ways to get there. Bullets below are pure lead, MV ~1,600 fps


    They shoot fairly well.


    When they hit a deer there is no tracking. 80 yards


    Placement? .22 short, about 20 yards

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    Hey, did you recover the slug and if so how much weight was retained?
    Sorry but, I was feeling a little aggravating having heard that on the internet 1000's of times ad nauseum! I feel better now.

  15. #35
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    Who you talking to?

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    The .22 short in the skull.

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy
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    Yes I did, but it wasn't found in the skull. Retained weight is 28 grains, located about 6" behind the skull in neck muscle


    You've seen the front view, this is the rear.


    The victim


    FWIW, the retained weight on the .44 patched bullet above is 297.6 gr. Starting wt was 300 gr.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    That is the round my grandfather used to provide us with ham, pork chops, bacon, and etc. He would mix water and wheat shorts to pour into feed trough, pick out the one he wanted and take the shot. A favorite story my Dad told was that my great uncle was to help my grandfather dress the hog and was standing behind him when he shot. The hog on reflex jerked his head to one side spraying the shorts on the wall of the barn and my uncle exclaimed Ben, what did you shoot him with? You've blown all his brains out!

  19. #39
    Boolit Master redhawk0's Avatar
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    Last year I did some range testing with 170gr Sierra FP and 170gr 311041. My 311041 (or 31141...I have two molds) were all PC'd and loaded to the same hunting load I used with the Sierra FPs.

    WLRM primer and 32.0gr of W748. This was the original Winchester 170gr factory load....anyway....When I did some range tests I found that my groupings from one bullet to the other boolit were within 1" of each other at 50 yards. Seeing that they are so close...I can switch back and forth depending on my mood when deer hunting.

    redhawk

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  20. #40
    Boolit Mold
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    I read an article about the 45-70 and cast bullets. A bull had pinkeye and couldn't see. He charged whatever he heard. The boss decided the bull had to be put down. One of the hands came out with a trap door springfield. The load used was a 500 gr bullet pushed by black powder. Estimated velocity was 1300 FPS. The big bullet went clean through the critter THE LONG WAY! Don't underestimate cast bullets.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check