45 Winchester Magnum in 1860 Conversion or Winchester 1866

[SPJ]

I have been doing research for new potential options for loading reproduction black powder guns. Right now I am curious about the potential .45 Win Mag brass loaded with BP could have for use in both 1860 Colt conversions, and Henry 1860 or Winchester 1866 rifles. Given the dimensions of the cartridge case I think it could be used to recreate the ballistics of both 44 Colt or 44 Henry, while adding the benefit of using an inside lubed bullet, and maybe even 45 Colt

Fore the 1860 revolver, given the fact that the cartridge is rimless, it can allow the use of six rounds in a cylinder like that of the 44 Colt conversion cylinders, and unlike modern reproductions that only allow five 45 Colt rounds. Making sure to use BP is important due to cylinder pressures of course. I understand that the conversion cylinders available in 45 acp are limited to five rounds not due to cylinder pressures even though six is ​​possible due to the rimless cartridge diameter.

In the case of the 1860 Henry and Winchester 1866, like I stated before I think the 45 WinMag could be loaded to replicate the 44 Henry, while maybe milling down the length of the brass a little in this case, or seating the bullet a little deeper. Also, based on these old thread discussions https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...ctions.221555/ and https://gunhub.com/rifles/51126-riml...ever-guns.html it should be reasonably possible to modify and lever action to extract rimless ammo.

The biggest benefit I am hoping for is then having a load that can be used in both a revolver and rifle. Something that was possible with the Colt Open Top revolvers in 44 Henry, and was not possible for the 44 Colt due to its small diameter rim.

So is this as probable of an option as I think it is? Has anyone tried it before?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Winchester_Magnum Bullet dia= .452, Rim dia= .48
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.44_Colt Bullet dia = .451 , Rim dia = .483
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.44_Henry Bullet dia= .446
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt Bullet dia= .452

[PHyrbird]

I have a Ruger with 45WM cylinder. I DON'T use factory in it, but lighter loads, a sweet combination. It is proofed with factory though. I reserve factory for the Contender Sup14. You should consider 45 Schofield in a 45 colt chamber, lot easier to deal with. Works great in a Puma 454 CM lever action, like shooting a 22LR.

[SPJ]

How many shots is the revolver, and what is the cylinder diameter?

Also, I don't think I have to worry about cutting through to the outside of the cylinder. Here is a photo of an original Richards conversion cylinder loaded with 44 Colt cartridges and and drawing and specs of that revolver from The Pitman Notes Volume Two. You can see that the rims of the cartridges do not get in the way of the newly made teeth and that there is still steel showing between the rim of the cartridge and the edge of the cylinder. The rim diameter of the 44 Colt is .483 "and the 45 WinMag rim is .48". So the rim of the WinMag would allow even more clearance for the ratchet teeth. My worry is how thick the cylinder wall in the rear end of the cylinder will remain. According to Wikipedia the base diameter of the WinMag is .476 ", and Pitman states that the diameter of the chamber at the breech of the chamber is .472". I am not sure how much strength may remain if I remove that .004" difference. I don't think I will cut into the cylinder stops. But I am not sure if the metal left will not blow out after I fire it. I think I may be able to allow a thicker wall in the rear if I follow the example of the Howell Remington New Army conversion and bore the chambers at an angle.



This link has a person saying that their conversion cylinder at its thinnest point is 0.037" thick. https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=605530 They do not state if that is between chambers or the wall of the cylinder between the chamber and outside. But for now I might as well treat it as the outer wall thickness

If I have my trig right, with the length of the cylinder being 1.587", then tan(.025)*1.587=0.0397. Meaning that if I bore the cylinder through at a 0.025 angle towards the axis of the cylinder, then I should leave the rear wall of the cylinder with approx 0.040" more of metal than otherwise. and if the outer wall is supposed to be .037" otherwise, then I can achieve on with a thickness of .037+.0.40=.077" which should be enough for a BP revolver. And I will likely need a smaller angle since the wall thickness is likely more, and the 0.037" measurement being between chambers.

[Don McDowell]

What exactly would the 45 winchester accomplish loaded with black powder that the 45 colt isn't already doing since 1873?

[SPJ]

That I can then also fit six of the same rounds in an 1860 revolver. Fantasy gun fun project

[Don McDowell]

So get a rifle in 45 colt and a conversion cylinder for the 1860, or get one of the conversion models already built.

[SPJ]

Yes, but the already built ones allow that extra cartridge by moving the arbor higher on the frame. I want to find a method to allow six rounds with modifications only to the cylinder

[RoyEllis]

That I can then also fit six of the same rounds in an 1860 revolver. Fantasy gun fun project

Not enough meat in that small cylinder to hold up, that's why nobody makes 6rd cyl for the '58 '60 etc.

[Don McDowell]

Not to mention the headache of having to use moon clips with that rimless cartridge