Load DataInline FabricationWidenersTitan Reloading
MidSouth Shooters SupplyRepackboxRotoMetals2Lee Precision
Reloading Everything
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 62

Thread: "Christ died for our sins"..............

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Un-repented sins are not forgiven. God knows your true heart. If you are not sorry enough to do all you could to make amends then you are evil, lazy or greedy and will not be forgiven. Jesus paid the price for those who truly love him and are heartfully sorry for their offenses. If you don't love Jesus enough to do as he would do, you are not holding up your end of the bargain. Look into your heart, do you regret your sins, do you do all you can to right the wrongs you have done? Do you ask God to show you where you have been wrong that you might not be aware of so that you can fix it.

    Make your peace with God not the Bible.

    Tim
    Tim, I like your reply. Thanks.
    It goes into an area that lies between what is written in the Bible and what is meant.
    "Unrepented sins are not forgiven"
    "God knows your true heart"
    Makes sense.
    Despite the free gift of salvation, there are still caveats involved.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,949
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    Yes, after re-reading my reply to you, I should have said it was your standard answer to me.
    I apologize.
    I actually enjoy reading your various posts in this forum.



    Well, we've been down that road before and you claimed there was not even a suggestion in the Bible about Karma/Reincarnation.
    I provided several examples from the Bible but you did not reply.
    Then, I asked why you did not comment, you gave me a similar reply as above (I need to read or take a course in Bible interpretation).

    I don't recall stating the Bible is full of contradictions.
    There are contradictions though.
    Do a web search on "contradictions in the Bible" and you'll see what I mean.

    It may seem to you that I am bashing the Bible. I am not.
    I am just pointing out areas that do not make sense to me or points of view that may not be to your liking.
    Like I've said before, I consider myself a Hybrid Christian (for lack of better words).
    That is, I believe the principles and teachings of Jesus but also believe in Karma/Reincarnation.
    I also believe it was part of the belief system that early Christians had until the Bible was put together and books that supported those issues were thrown out and burned.


    I agree that a true Christian would not say or do that.
    It was an exaggeration to make a point.

    For me, there is still that issue of if we are accountable for our sins now and in the future, even though there is the free gift of salvation.
    I see that apparently that is not an issue with you.

    I know, I know, go read some more ((grin)

    Thanks for your reply.
    There just isn't any answer, other than the one I have given you, for someone who thinks the Bible teaches reincarnation or that the early Church believed such a thing. The verses you use to support this idea are taken out of context, ignore the way Jews communicated and dismiss all the sections of Scripture that clearly teach that you have one life here on earth and then you face judgement. I can only imagine what else you might believe the Bible teaches.

    The only beneficial answer for you, assuming you really want to understand what the Bible actually teaches, is to get some training in biblical interpretation and doctrine. If you are happy popping up here with posts that clearly go against the Bible's teaching (for shock value?), then you cannot be helped or reasoned with.

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    There just isn't any answer, other than the one I have given you, for someone who thinks the Bible teaches reincarnation or that the early Church believed such a thing. The verses you use to support this idea are taken out of context, ignore the way Jews communicated and dismiss all the sections of Scripture that clearly teach that you have one life here on earth and then you face judgement. I can only imagine what else you might believe the Bible teaches.
    Well, this discussion went sideways a bit.

    I did not state that the Bible teaches reincarnation.
    As you know, you won't find that word in the Bible but there are verses sprinkled in the Bible that suggest Karma/Reincarnation, as I provided to you in the past.
    You read it one way, I read it another.

    The early church did not believe in such a thing?
    With all of your reading and studying, I guess you haven't read about the Gnostics?
    Perhaps you also need to do some reading.


    The only beneficial answer for you, assuming you really want to understand what the Bible actually teaches, is to get some training in biblical interpretation and doctrine.
    Seems I've read that before.
    If you are happy popping up here with posts that clearly go against the Bible's teaching (for shock value?), then you cannot be helped or reasoned with.
    Shock value? <sigh>
    No, Ickisrulz. Geez.

    Provocative issues that seem like a good topic for discussion, yes.
    I think that some here view opposing views as an attack on their belief system.
    That is not my intent.
    Some issues make people think and make a reply and then become the benefit of everyone.
    I enjoy reading opposing views. It makes me think and sometimes I do some research.

    "....then you cannot be helped or reasoned with...."
    another <sigh>.
    Ickisrulz, then save yourself some frustration and don't reply to my posts.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,949
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    The early church did not believe in such a thing?
    With all of your reading and studying, I guess you haven't read about the Gnostics?
    Perhaps you also need to do some reading.
    The gnostics were not part of the Church. These people sought to corrupt the Gospel and the teachings of Jesus. The Apostles fought against these false doctrines. But even now we see their ideas raising their ugly heads...right here on this forum!

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    Your requirement for forgiveness involves the emotions. We cannot help how we feel about things. We can only help how we behave. There are plenty of sins I have committed in the past that I would not repeat given the chance, but I am not entirely broken up about*. Repentance is a mindset, an intellectual exercise.

    Christians are not to be ruled by their emotions. Christians should educate themselves concerning what God wants and act accordingly. Biblical love is not an emotion. It is behavior that does what is best for those we encounter in our lives.

    *In fact, they give me some pretty good memories (the writer of Hebrews mentions the "fleeting pleasures of sin").
    The pleasures of sin must be fleeting if that sin is to be forgiven. If you have good memories of sins you committed you need to seek God's help. Understand if no one was harmed then there was no sin, if someone was harmed then the sin must be repented and amends made for that sin to be forgiven. Repentance does not need to be an emotional exercise, it can be the intellectual realization of the harm done so that proper amends can be made. How can you have some pretty good memories of hurting someone, that would be evil. Like I said, if no one was harmed then there was no sin. If the harm was just to yourself, that might be a gray zone. We can help how we feel about things. The best way is to seek the light of truth, to understand why something is wrong with how we feel and teach yourself to feel properly about it. Sometimes it will come to you as an epiphany and hit you like a brick.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    3,820
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    "Unrepented sins are not forgiven
    Other than RCC doctrine and, okay, a few hyper-legalistic backcountry evangelical groups, no matter how much human sense it might make there is nothing in scripture that agrees with that, at least not as you mean it.

    Thing is, if we start adding to or subtracting from scripture as we please we may as well toss the Bible and just sit around and decide for ourselves what Godly "truths" makes the most sense to us and doing that makes no sense at all to me.

    "God knows your true heart"
    Absolutely, you've got that exactly right! The heart IS what God measures so adding man's ideas of the extras God should require for everything to make sense to us is exactly the type of error the Pharasees of Jesus' day made and that was some BAD ju-ju!

    Despite the free gift of salvation there are still crevats involved.
    Wrong, there are no carvats involved; either salvation is a free gift or it's not. Truth is, we must be saved by the unearned, blood bought free gift of salvation that Jesus offers or there is no gospel for us at all. And, thank God, there IS a fabulous gospel!

    As a closing thought, everyone should know there is no spiritual halfway house, or purgatory, where the not-totally-forgiven dead must suffer a bit to work off unrepented sins ... or pay a priest to buy their way out early. That un-Biblical idea adds another personal effort to obtain God's "free gift of salvation" ... and both doctrines are blasphemy.

    So, no, there are no caveats to salvation involved. Either Jesus' blood bought "free gift of salvation" is free or it's not, there is no division of labors effectively saying, "Jesus will do his part if I do mine". Earned (pagan) salvations are hopefully achieved by following a well stated set of rules and works but it surely isn't Christianity.

    When a Christian dies he will immediately awake in the eternal loving presence of God. There will be no fearful cowering and trembling naked before a throne waiting to hear if we made it or not, the mere fact that we stand in the presence of Jesus is proof we have indeed made it! (See John 3:16-18)

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    .....When a Christian dies he will immediately awake in the eternal loving presence of God. There will be no fearful cowering and trembling naked before a throne waiting to hear if we made it or not, the mere fact that we stand in the presence of Jesus is proof we have indeed made it! (See John 3:16-18)
    Many are invited, but few are chosen. This free gift has no caveats involved, you either have a pure heart or not. God is not going to tell you why you were not chosen, no list of unforgiven sins. You are either good enough or you are not. The real question is how good is good enough. If many are invited, but few are chosen then I suspect you have to be very very good. What do you think maybe a dozen of the 50,000 members of this forum will make the cut?

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  8. #28
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,949
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    The pleasures of sin must be fleeting if that sin is to be forgiven. If you have good memories of sins you committed you need to seek God's help. Understand if no one was harmed then there was no sin, if someone was harmed then the sin must be repented and amends made for that sin to be forgiven. Repentance does not need to be an emotional exercise, it can be the intellectual realization of the harm done so that proper amends can be made. How can you have some pretty good memories of hurting someone, that would be evil. Like I said, if no one was harmed then there was no sin. If the harm was just to yourself, that might be a gray zone. We can help how we feel about things. The best way is to seek the light of truth, to understand why something is wrong with how we feel and teach yourself to feel properly about it. Sometimes it will come to you as an epiphany and hit you like a brick.

    Tim
    I am glad God is my judge. He is exceedingly generous and kind.

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Un-repented sins are not forgiven. God knows your true heart. If you are not sorry enough to do all you could to make amends then you are evil, lazy or greedy and will not be forgiven. Jesus paid the price for those who truly love him and are heartfully sorry for their offenses. If you don't love Jesus enough to do as he would do, you are not holding up your end of the bargain. Look into your heart, do you regret your sins, do you do all you can to right the wrongs you have done? Do you ask God to show you where you have been wrong that you might not be aware of so that you can fix it.

    Make your peace with God not the Bible.

    Tim
    TIM, you are adding works to repentance . ephesians 2 verse 8 & 9 . not a result of works, so that no one may boast

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by a danl View Post
    TIM, you are adding works to repentance . ephesians 2 verse 8 & 9 . not a result of works, so that no one may boast
    To boast is a sin of pride and harms everyone who hears the boast. If you cause harm and can make it right, certainly you must make it right. You can call that works if you want but modeling Jesus, you will do good works, it is unavoidable.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    3,820
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    What do you think maybe a dozen of the 50,000 members of this forum will make the cut?

    Tim
    Timmy, your lips are overflowing again; I've never suggested or even thought that. So, once again you're putting your words and thoughts in my mouth and that isn't sanitary. Stop it.

    I don't know any members of this forum and I never make judgements about such things as spiritual "cuts" so you'll have to handle things like that for yourself because I'll have no part in it.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Pleasant Hope MO
    Posts
    2,225
    After reading this thread and others in "Deep Theological Discussion" I am always led to Luke ch 18 vs 8 and ponder the question Jesus ask.

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by ioon44 View Post
    After reading this thread and others in "Deep Theological Discussion" I am always led to Luke ch 18 vs 8 and ponder the question Jesus ask.
    Well, since you did not state what it says, here is what that verse says, for everyone that is not a Chapter/verse type:

    8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

    So what are you trying to say here?
    I do not see where if refers to the topic discussed.
    What did I miss?

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    The gnostics were not part of the Church. These people sought to corrupt the Gospel and the teachings of Jesus. The Apostles fought against these false doctrines. But even now we see their ideas raising their ugly heads...right here on this forum!
    OK, the Gnostics were the Early Christians.
    Better?

  15. #35
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,949
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    OK, the Gnostics were the Early Christians.
    Better?
    No, Gnostic ideas were outside/opposed to the doctrine delivered by the Apostles. Are you claiming that First Century Christians were all Gnostic in their beliefs? While a Christian's beliefs do not have to be 100% correct, Gnostic teachings not only contradict the Gospel message, they are damaging. This is why the Apostles (the leaders of the First Century churches) fought against it.

    You can believe whatever you want. But I will once again suggest you get some actual training in biblical studies. When I read your posts, I don't get the idea you see the Bible as being your authority for faith and conduct. So maybe a reasonable understating of the Scriptures is not your goal.
    Last edited by Ickisrulz; 07-22-2020 at 06:39 PM.

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Wrong, there are no carvats involved; either salvation is a free gift or it's not.
    Well, that is how I also understand what the free gift is but got hung up on us being accountable for our sins.
    It made sense to me when Tim replied about no unrepented sin is forgiven.
    That made sense to me, but now.....
    Free means free, that also makes sense.

    I guess it is a moot point for me since I do believe we are accountable for all of our sins.
    It's just another thing in the Bible that isn't clear to me because it conjurs up questions such as I've made here in this thread.

    As a closing thought, everyone should know there is no spiritual halfway house, or purgatory, where the not-totally-forgiven dead must suffer a bit to work off unrepented sins ... or pay a priest to buy their way out early. That un-Biblical idea adds another personal effort to obtain God's "free gift of salvation" ... and both doctrines are blasphemy.
    Well, that obviously is your opinion, but there are other belief systems.
    My view/belief is that we are accountable (Karma) for our bad actions.
    This plays out in the afterlife where our good/bad Karma is evaluated (judged?) by God.
    Maybe we move on into the Spiritual Realms or maybe we have to reincarnate to give us the opportunity to squelch any material desires we had unfulfilled before death (desire for that new Corvette, being President, Pastor, etc. that keep us somewhat anchored to this Material World) and also to negate the unrepented sin that we had.

    When a Christian dies he will immediately awake in the eternal loving presence of God. There will be no fearful cowering and trembling naked before a throne waiting to hear if we made it or not, the mere fact that we stand in the presence of Jesus is proof we have indeed made it! (See John 3:16-18)
    Perhaps, but Jesus might say to you "Ah-h-h-h, you're not quite there. You need to go back for a few more incarnations.

    Hopefully not.
    Last edited by Rizzo; 07-22-2020 at 06:47 PM.

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    OK, the Gnostics were the Early Christians.
    Better?
    Ickisrulz;4947595]No, Gnostic ideas were outside/opposed to the doctrine delivered by the Apostles. Are you claiming that First Century Christians were all Gnostic in their beliefs?
    Wow, you're a tough one Ickisrulz. LOL!!
    I say that with no disrespect.

    No, I am not saying the first century Christians were ALL Gnostics.
    How about this one....
    The Gnostics were a group of Early Christians who believed in reincarnation.
    Hmmm....?

    You can believe whatever you want. But I will once again suggest you get some actual training in biblical studies.
    Well, thank you......and you can believe whatever you want to.
    Still beating that dead horse though, eh?

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
    exile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,468
    Hebrews 9:27.

    exile
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  19. #39
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,949
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    How about this one....
    The Gnostics were a group of Early Christians who believed in reincarnation.
    Hmmm....?
    The problem here might be that we have different views of what a Christian is. The meaning of being a Christian can be found...in the Bible.

  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by exile View Post
    Hebrews 9:27.

    exile
    Rizzo 1:1

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check