"Christ died for our sins"..............

[Rizzo]

"Christ died for our sins"
....... and also Christians have a free gift of salvation.

These two statements are a big part of what Christians believe.

I was wondering what the root source is for those statements so I did a Bible search.
I found only one verse in the Bible that came up in my "died for our sins" searches.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

That verse does seem to be a source for that statement.....sort of.

But, according to what scriptures is it referring to? It is not clear.

Further, the "our sins" suggest the sins of those at that time and also all future sins of everyone.
One could say that since we all sin we are "covered" (forgiven?) by Jesus' death by that Bible verse.
To exagerate a bit, one could conclude that because they believe in Jesus they can have a good time, do sinful things and not worry about it because they are "Saved".

Are we not accountable for our sins?
If so, we do not have this "Free Pass" to heaven as one might think.

I find it confusing and perhaps it is a misunderstanding of the verse or another translation issue that is going on.

For me, I do not believe that we get a Free Pass to heavan just because one is a Christian.
For the sins that we have committed we are accountable.

Thoughts/Opinions?

[Ickisrulz]

Thoughts/Opinions?

My thought is that you need to take a couple courses (or read good books) in biblical interpretation and basic doctrine. Then you need to read the entire New Testament keeping in mind context and setting aside biases.

[MT Gianni]

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-Chapter-7/
Here is a good place to start. I believe that vs 15-29 show that not all who claim to be saved will be.

[exile]

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?" Romans 6:1-2 (E.S.V.)

As a Christian, do I still sin? Of course I do, for I am a sinner. As a Christian, am I free to sin? Of course not!

"Wretched man that I am? Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!..." Romans 7:24-25 (E.S.V.)

exile

[1hole]

"The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ." (Rom 6:23)

THAT is the meaning of Jesus' self sacrifice for each of us IF we will take his freely offered gift.

We should understand that the Bible was written by and directly to Jews; they know to use scripture to understand scripture. They usually had a sound knowledge of what we call the Old Testament so a lot of things that are puzzeling to secular gentiles was/is quite clear to them.

Any 12 year old can read the Bible but no 12 year old mentality can grasp the deeper message(s) behind the words. The application of New Testament scripture certainly applies to gentiles but scripture isn't written like a modern school text book, if we want to know what the Biblical message really is we have to know what all of scripture says. Picking an interesting verse here and yonder, lifting things out of its rightful context and adding our own opinions of what we think it means is a near certain path to Biblical confusion. If we want to know what the Bible means we need to first read it to see what's there; then read it again and compare to other verses that address the same issues and prayerfully contemplate what the underlying message is. Otherwise our ponderous intellectual guesses on the web are just blabbering in public about spiritual things of which we're largely ignorant of. (IMHO of course, no offense intended.)

Most of us need help in our Bible study. The single best Bible study aid I've found is Nave's Topical Bible. It has a list of topics and then gives every major verse that illuminates that topic; it's just topical data, there's nothing denominational about it. Second and third best study aids are a Strong's Complete Concordance and a Bible dictionary coded to Strong's word numbering system (I can't read Greek or Latin but I can read Arabic numbers!).

There are many other very good study aid books of course (including "transliterated" Bibles - i.e., straight word-for-word translations that are also coded word-for-word in Strong's numbering system) but those three make a solid core for any serious armchair theologian's Bible study library.

[1hole]

.... To exagerate a bit, one could conclude that because they believe in Jesus they can have a good time, do sinful things and not worry about it because they are "Saved". >>>>> Thoughts/Opinions?

That IS an "exaggeration", i.e., a lie, but it seems some self proclaimed "christians" believe it to be true. It's called "easy belief", a shallow acceptance of a concept of something they really don't believe but hope it will be sufficient for fire insurance. Wrong.

A new believer will ALWAYS be spiritually changed by his new belief, he becomes a spiritual "new creature in Christ". God judges the heart, no one will be perfect in this life but if there's no heart change there's really been no changed belief in spite of what's professed.

Shallow, self-saved people are those Jesus addresses in Mat 7:21-29. To know the good news but refuse to fully except Jesus as Lord of life is as certain a path to hell as happily living in a cat house while claiming to be a "believer" and that's sad.

[Rizzo]

My thought is that you need to take a couple courses (or read good books) in biblical interpretation and basic doctrine. Then you need to read the entire New Testament keeping in mind context and setting aside biases.

This seems to be your standard reply when addressing issues like this.
You take the time to type out your reply but won't take the time to comment, in your own words, on the topic at hand like some of the other replies.
Why is that?

I sense that you think that the question(s) or topics are ridiculous and you just shake your head and type out what you did above.
Do this, then do that, then do that again and then you'll see what I mean, is what I'm getting from you.

I have done a bit of reading and know where I am at and am willing to discuss my views. Unlike you in this instance.

Don't want to discuss the topic(s), no problem here, but criticizing the one asking the questions seems a bit rude to me.

[Rizzo]

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-Chapter-7/
Here is a good place to start. I believe that vs 15-29 show that not all who claim to be saved will be.

Thanks for the link.
I read it and see what you mean.

[Rizzo]

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?" Romans 6:1-2 (E.S.V.)

As a Christian, do I still sin? Of course I do, for I am a sinner. As a Christian, am I free to sin? Of course not!

"Wretched man that I am? Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!..." Romans 7:24-25 (E.S.V.)

exile

Well, your Bible verses do not really address the question asked in the OP.
Also, you state that you are a sinner (as we all are) but are not free to sin.

Of course we are free to sin, if we choose to. Free will, right?
So we continue to sin despite the free gift of salvation it would seem.
How does accountability for our sins enter into this since Jesus paid the price for our sins?

[Rizzo]

"The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ." (Rom 6:23)

THAT is the meaning of Jesus' self sacrifice for each of us IF we will take his freely offered gift.

We should understand that the Bible was written by and directly to Jews; they know to use scripture to understand scripture. They usually had a sound knowledge of what we call the Old Testament so a lot of things that are puzzeling to secular gentiles was/is quite clear to them.

Any 12 year old can read the Bible but no 12 year old mentality can grasp the deeper message(s) behind the words. The application of New Testament scripture certainly applies to gentiles but scripture isn't written like a modern school text book, if we want to know what the Biblical message really is we have to know what all of scripture says. Picking an interesting verse here and yonder, lifting things out of its rightful context and adding our own opinions of what we think it means is a near certain path to Biblical confusion. If we want to know what the Bible means we need to first read it to see what's there; then read it again and compare to other verses that address the same issues and prayerfully contemplate what the underlying message is. Otherwise our ponderous intellectual guesses on the web are just blabbering in public about spiritual things of which we're largely ignorant of. (IMHO of course, no offense intended.)

Most of us need help in our Bible study. The single best Bible study aid I've found is Nave's Topical Bible. It has a list of topics and then gives every major verse that illuminates that topic; it's just topical data, there's nothing denominational about it. Second and third best study aids are a Strong's Complete Concordance and a Bible dictionary coded to Strong's word numbering system (I can't read Greek or Latin but I can read Arabic numbers!).

There are many other very good study aid books of course (including "transliterated" Bibles - i.e., straight word-for-word translations that are also coded word-for-word in Strong's numbering system) but those three make a solid core for any serious armchair theologian's Bible study library.

Your emphasis on the need to seek alternate sources to understand what is meant in the Bible rings true, unfortunately.
I have read the Bible and do read alternate sources that go through the Bible (mainly NT) and address the verses with a point of view that tends to make sense to me.

I can't help but think of a new Truth seeker looking to learn about God and what life is all about.
The Bible does not do a good job of that. It does give a good historical record of past times but even for the apostles, what Jesus was saying in some instances was over their heads.

However, you did not address your views on what seems to be a conflicting notion that we are accountable for our sins yet we are promised a gift of salvation (In religion, salvation generally refers to the saving of the soul from sin and its consequences.).

[Ickisrulz]

This seems to be your standard reply when addressing issues like this.
You take the time to type out your reply but won't take the time to comment, in your own words, on the topic at hand like some of the other replies.
Why is that?

I sense that you think that the question(s) or topics are ridiculous and you just shake your head and type out what you did above.
Do this, then do that, then do that again and then you'll see what I mean, is what I'm getting from you.

I have done a bit of reading and know where I am at and am willing to discuss my views. Unlike you in this instance.

Don't want to discuss the topic(s), no problem here, but criticizing the one asking the questions seems a bit rude to me.

No, that is not my standard answer to questions on this sub-forum. I generally just answer the question as it is asked. However, in your case, the best answer I could possibly give is that you learn how the Bible should be interpreted and how generations of Christians have arrived at basic answers we call "doctrine." I think I have suggested this to you in the past.

You seem to have very little understanding of the Bible. For example, you routinely claim the idea of reincarnation is found in Scriptures and you claim the Bible is full of contradictions. It is not.

But to answer your question: A true Christian is forgiven their past, present and future sins. A true Christian does not live a life characterized by sin, but they will still sin. A true Christian would never say, "Let's get the most out of Jesus' sacrifice and live like the devil."

James is the most famous for saying that mental assent is not true salvation. He claims that a person of faith demonstrates that faith by the way he lives. We are saved by faith and that faith can be seen in how we act. Paul says the same thing, although more gently. His letters outline what God has done for us and then implore that we live a life pleasing to God (e.g., Romans 12:1, Ephesians 4:1).

The preceding is plainly spelled out in the New Testament and is no great mystery to anyone familiar with those 27 books.

[1hole]

Well said. ^^^^

[GhostHawk]

Agree, well said Ickisrulz.

I don't call myself a Christian, but the Lord might disagree with me.
I do sin, but I try NOT to, and I try to learn from those mistakes and not repeat them.

I do believe we need to accept his grace, ask for redemption and accept it.
And try to live our lives so that others can see him in us.

IMO it takes more than acceptance and will or intent.

We need to SERVE, and accept him as Master. So that it is HIS will that is done, not ours.
And good works in his name never hurt anyone. As long as they are good works.

[dangitgriff]

My thought is that you need to take a couple courses (or read good books) in biblical interpretation and basic doctrine. Then you need to read the entire New Testament keeping in mind context and setting aside biases.

‘Man, The Saint’, by Fr. Jesús Urteaga is another outstanding read.

[dtknowles]

Well, your Bible verses do not really address the question asked in the OP.
Also, you state that you are a sinner (as we all are) but are not free to sin.

Of course we are free to sin, if we choose to. Free will, right?
So we continue to sin despite the free gift of salvation it would seem.
How does accountability for our sins enter into this since Jesus paid the price for our sins?

Un-repented sins are not forgiven. God knows your true heart. If you are not sorry enough to do all you could to make amends then you are evil, lazy or greedy and will not be forgiven. Jesus paid the price for those who truly love him and are heartfully sorry for their offenses. If you don't love Jesus enough to do as he would do, you are not holding up your end of the bargain. Look into your heart, do you regret your sins, do you do all you can to right the wrongs you have done? Do you ask God to show you where you have been wrong that you might not be aware of so that you can fix it.

Make your peace with God not the Bible.

Tim

[Ickisrulz]

Un-repented sins are not forgiven. God knows your true heart. If you are not sorry enough to do all you could to make amends then you are evil, lazy or greedy and will not be forgiven. Jesus paid the price for those who truly love him and are heartfully sorry for their offenses. If you don't love Jesus enough to do as he would do, you are not holding up your end of the bargain. Look into your heart, do you regret your sins, do you do all you can to right the wrongs you have done? Do you ask God to show you where you have been wrong that you might not be aware of so that you can fix it.

Make your peace with God not the Bible.

Tim

Your requirement for forgiveness involves the emotions. We cannot help how we feel about things. We can only help how we behave. There are plenty of sins I have committed in the past that I would not repeat given the chance, but I am not entirely broken up about*. Repentance is a mindset, an intellectual exercise.

Christians are not to be ruled by their emotions. Christians should educate themselves concerning what God wants and act accordingly. Biblical love is not an emotion. It is behavior that does what is best for those we encounter in our lives.

*In fact, they give me some pretty good memories (the writer of Hebrews mentions the "fleeting pleasures of sin").

[dangitgriff]

What we need to do to get Christians back on the right track is to kick off another round of Crusades and turn God’s warriors loose on the Middle East again, since it was so successful the first go-round.
Oh, right...Christian Uncle Sam has that covered. Seems legit. No one revels in Divine Provenance as smugly as we Americans.
Just add the cost of it to our tab. We’ll pay for it later (wink, wink ).

[William Yanda]

"Further, the "our sins" suggest the sins of those at that time and also all future sins of everyone.
One could say that since we all sin we are "covered" (forgiven?) by Jesus' death by that Bible verse.
To exagerate a bit, one could conclude that because they believe in Jesus they can have a good time, do sinful things and not worry about it because they are "Saved"." Rizzo

Not if you read the epistle of James

[dangitgriff]

Ah, yes...the Epistle of James. That’s the one wherein he describes how Jesus’s own followers betrayed him in the court of Pontius Pilate by remaining silent when Pilate asked if any present would vouch for Jesus and take him out of the city, in order to avoid sentencing him to death.
By the way, the Book of Barnabus claims the identity of Jesus was mistaken for another apostle. We may have been in the right pasture buying the wrong bull lo these 2,000 years.

[Rizzo]

No, that is not my standard answer to questions on this sub-forum. I generally just answer the question as it is asked. However, in your case, the best answer I could possibly give is that you learn how the Bible should be interpreted and how generations of Christians have arrived at basic answers we call "doctrine." I think I have suggested this to you in the past.

Yes, after re-reading my reply to you, I should have said it was your standard answer to me.
I apologize.
I actually enjoy reading your various posts in this forum.

You seem to have very little understanding of the Bible. For example, you routinely claim the idea of reincarnation is found in Scriptures and you claim the Bible is full of contradictions. It is not.

Well, we've been down that road before and you claimed there was not even a suggestion in the Bible about Karma/Reincarnation.
I provided several examples from the Bible but you did not reply.
Then, I asked why you did not comment, you gave me a similar reply as above (I need to read or take a course in Bible interpretation).

I don't recall stating the Bible is full of contradictions.
There are contradictions though.
Do a web search on "contradictions in the Bible" and you'll see what I mean.

It may seem to you that I am bashing the Bible. I am not.
I am just pointing out areas that do not make sense to me or points of view that may not be to your liking.
Like I've said before, I consider myself a Hybrid Christian (for lack of better words).
That is, I believe the principles and teachings of Jesus but also believe in Karma/Reincarnation.
I also believe it was part of the belief system that early Christians had until the Bible was put together and books that supported those issues were thrown out and burned.

But to answer your question: A true Christian is forgiven their past, present and future sins. A true Christian does not live a life characterized by sin, but they will still sin. A true Christian would never say, "Let's get the most out of Jesus' sacrifice and live like the devil."

I agree that a true Christian would not say or do that.
It was an exaggeration to make a point.

For me, there is still that issue of if we are accountable for our sins now and in the future, even though there is the free gift of salvation.
I see that apparently that is not an issue with you.

I know, I know, go read some more ((grin)

Thanks for your reply.