Light 223 cast load questions

[dj454]

I have been searching and reading and I have found some answers but I still have several questions.

I started looking into 22 hornet when I found a light load for a 55 grain lead bullet in my Lyman manual. It was around 1055 fps with Red Dot and it started the wheels rolling in my head.

After looking there aren't a lot of choices for 22 Hornet rifles and none are in the price range I want. 223 on the other hand I have several choices of bolt rifles in 223 around $400 or less. I already load 223 for my AR 15 so I have dies and plenty of brass. My Lyman book has light 223 lead loads but not as light as I want.

I plan to buy a 55 grain mold but all the inexpensive molds I have looked at have a base for gas checks. I don't want to bother with gas checks for now since I want to stay around 1000-1200 fps so I can use the same wheel weight lead I use for my pistol loads. I will coat them with Hi Tek or powder coat them.

Here is my list of questions:

1.Will it be ok to run the bullets without gas checks since the bullet will have the base for a gas check?
2. My manual doesn't have loads as slow as I want 1000-1200 fps will I need to use powders like Trail Boss due to the larger case of the 223 case?
3. Would powders like Bullseye,700x, Unique work ok for the low velocity loads?
4. If I decide I want to push them faster 1500-2000 fps can I use wheel weight lead as long as I gas check them and coat the bullets or will I need harder lead?

Thanks for the help.

[Boolseye]

Howdy,
Everything that you're asking about is possible. There's a good sticky on shooting GC boolits without GCs–in short, keep 'em mild.
I've used all those powders you mentioned for low velocity .223 rounds. My squirrel loads use an RCBS-style 55 grain FP in a .223 with 4 gr. of Bullseye.
Questions:
1: Yes. Keep them low, check for accuracy.
2: Trail Boss is fine, but the other powders you mentioned also work well.
Search out Larry Gibson's posting on this. Light loads of BE work well in rifle cases. Be careful.
Start at 3 grains and work up in .223. Watch for bore obstructions.
3: Yes. I have used them all for this purpose.
4: Yes, WW lead and Gas Checks will get you to around 2000 fps or faster in .223.
Check for leading and harden as needed.
Also check out the "cast boolits in military rifles" post in the Military rifles forum, by C.E. Harris.

[aspangler]

Here is a link to a reduced load calculator that I have used to good results.
http://www.handloads.com/calc/reduced.asp

[Boolit_Head]

If you are talking about light loads for a AR you have to also consider if it will cycle. You might want to consider a powder that may produce a more gas at the same speed.

[richhodg66]

I haven't done it in the .223, but have been loading real light loads in .22 Hornet for a while now. My goal was squirrel head accurate at 25 yards. The Lyman 225438 shot without gas check using 1.5 grains of Bullseye met that standard easily and is very quiet. Tried it with the Lee Bator mold with even better results. Both are gas check designs.

Since then, I got the NOE 45 grain WFN and got the mold with all plain based. That works better still.

I would imagine if you allowed for the bigger case and used about 3 grains of Bullseye, you would have similar results. I'm going to have to try this in a .223 now.

[GhostHawk]

I am doing exactly that, but in a single shot Handi Rifle by H&R. The good news is unlike a decent AR which can set you back 1000-1500$ a good Handi rifle can be found for around 300$.

Lee Bator bullet, 2% tin, range scrap lead, 4.6 grains of Red Dot, no gas check.
I may need to go down just a smidge more for accuracy, but those are close.

Any basic bolt/single shot is going to be lighter, easier to use than an AR. Just have to wait to make that first shot count.

[dj454]

If you are talking about light loads for a AR you have to also consider if it will cycle. You might want to consider a powder that may produce a more gas at the same speed.

No I have an AR but I am talking about buying a bolt action.

[ipijohn]

I am doing exactly that, but in a single shot Handi Rifle by H&R. The good news is unlike a decent AR which can set you back 1000-1500$ a good Handi rifle can be found for around 300$.

Lee Bator bullet, 2% tin, range scrap lead, 4.6 grains of Red Dot, no gas check.
I may need to go down just a smidge more for accuracy, but those are close.


Any basic bolt/single shot is going to be lighter, easier to use than an AR. Just have to wait to make that first shot count.

I shoot a 55 gr PC GC lead boolit over 2.5 grains if Bulls Eye. The load is very accurate and chrono's at 1050 fps out of a H&R 223 Handi rifle. I don't resize the brass just dump it in the brass feeder on my Load Master and reload, which is a thing my grand kids can do with little supervision. I have a 60 ft indoor range in my basement, so the grandkids cand load a few, shoot them, reload them etc. Keeps them busy and teaches them skills and enforces their safety practices. They can change the load and see the reaction quickly.

[BSJI]

What twist rate has given the best accuracy with sub-sonic Bator boolits?

[Alferd Packer]

Dont expect the AR to cycle.
Just pull the charging handle like a bolt action.
Very enjoyable!

[curioushooter]

I have a CZ527 in 223 that I basically loaded to 22 Hornet levels down to 22 LR levels. 3.1 grains of Tightgroup with 55 grain jacketed bullets works very well in 223 for about 1100 FPS. With lighter bullets it goes a wee bit faster. Very quiet.

[Larry Gibson]

If you get a bolt gun or single shot get one with a 12" twist if you can. Much better with cast bullets than the faster twists.

To your questions. Already good advice posted.

1. Yes, however accuracy will not be as good as with GC'd bullets. Might try shooting as cast after lubing with LLA....a light coat and let thoroughly dry. I shooting beyound 25 yards I always use the GC.

2. Red Dot will work well for 1000 - 1100+/- fps. I prefer to just approach sonic which with 225438 and 225415 soft cast bullets is right at 1100 fps. That duplicates standard 22LR but the heavier 224415 FP bullet thumps small game a lot harder. I prefer Bullseye powder but RD will do as well. In the .223 start at 2 gr and work up to 2.5 gr. I use 2.2 gr Bullseye with the 225438 and 2.3 gr with the 225415 bullet.

3. Yes, but RD will work also. Again, I prefer Bullseye.

4. For 1500 - 2000 fps in my bolt and single shot 223s I again prefer to use bullseye. With the 225415 4 gr runs 1550 fps and 5.5 gr runs 1850 fps. For gas guns (ARs, etc.) I use H4895 or RL7 with a dacron filler under 55 and 65 gr cast bullets. Truthfully I don't load or shoot much cast in my ARs as I find the 55 FMJs shoot as well and at normal performance level. Besides I have a M261 device to use 22LR in my ARs.

Take care ensure the case has powder in it. Take care not to double charge although at 2 - 2.5 gr of BE or RD a double charge is not excessive by any means.