Loading Hollow Base Boolits for BP?

[Babbott213]

Any tips for loading Hollow Base Boolits for BP?

Since there is a hollow base, is there a concern of a air space?

This is for 44/40 and 200gr 45-70.


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[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Babbott213,

I have thought about doing this, contemplated filling hollow base with bullet lube.
I do know guys load hollow based wad cutters in 38 Long Colt.

AntiqueSledMan.

[Outpost75]

When the black powder is compressed in seating the bullet, it fills the hollow base. Using an HB bullet permits you to load a few grains more powder, but accuracy in heavy loads will not be as good if the skirt blows. I prefer solid-base bullets cast 1 to 30 tin-lead in my .44-40 rifles and revolvers. I don't shoot .45-70 anymore, but when I did I used 1 to 40 tin-lead with #457193 and SPG lube and got good accuracy to 200 yards.

[country gent]

Ideally the hollow base lets the bullet expand to fill and seal the bore. To much powder or to thin a skirt and accuracy goes south fast. What you might try is the powder charge a thin wad .030 or so, and enough cream of wheat to just slightly over fill the hollow base. To much lube can be messy and have poor accuracy also. the wad will help seal the bore and the cream of wheat will keep the wad from sticking in the hollow base. fill several bases level full with cow and weigh each and average add 1-2 grains and make a small dipper for that amount.

In use charge primed case with powder seat wad and compress add cow and seat bullets.

The original hollow based minnie design used a machined plug in the base also

[Babbott213]

Thanks for the information guys. I’m loading for my old Winchester 1873 with a oversized bore. Dear John before he passed sent me 5 of the Buffalo Arms Hollow Based Boolits to try and I’m just now getting to it after all this time. I also plan on trying the hollow based 405’s in my Springfield Trap Door as well.


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[bedbugbilly]

For what it's worth - I have loaded HB in 45 Colt with BP. I'm a long time 58 caliber rifled musket shooter and for that, I have always filled the HB of the mini ball with crisco - BUT - those loads were being used one after another - not sitting in a casing that way.

On the 45 Colt that I loaded, I filled the hollow base with my BP lube. I loaded the casing with enough BP to make a compressed load and placed a thin cardboard spacer/czrd the I punched out of thin wax coated cardboard between the powder and the lubed base boolit - then seated to make a compressed load. The ones I shot seemed to work quite well but I also suppose that in a hot climate, it the cartridges sat round and got warmed, you might have to worry about the lube migrating into of the charge?

I am in AZ and my loading data and the mold for the round is back in Michigan. It's been a couple of years since I have loaded the cartridge in that manner and since I have cast - I don't remember the grain weight of the boolit but it is from one of the old Shiloh molds. I bought the mold to use in a 1858 Uberti Remington Carbine that I have a 45 Colt conversion cylinder for - with the intent that I will at some point add a Uberty 1858 Remington to also use the conversion cylinder in. The cartridges I loaded were shot in a Ubefrti 45 Colt 7 1/2" Cattleman so it is not really a valid test since the boolits were pretty much throat/bore size.

I also have another Shiloh mold for a hollow base boolit to use in 38s. I got the mold in thought of getting a conversion cylinder for a Pietta 1858 Remington Navy that I have. Instead, I opted to go with a Uberti 1851 Navy Richards and Mason conversion that has a .357 bore.

I would also like to hear from others how they load a HB boolit as I am sure there is more than one way to king a cat. When I first started loading BP cartridges it was 38 specials - at the time I was shooting out of a 5 1/2" Ruger New Vacquaro. I was using the flat based Ideal/Lyman 358-311 plain base -finger lubed the grooves before seating. For me, I found that a 38 Colt Long was the perfect measure for the 3F Goes I was using and it gave me a pretty consistent compressed load - they shot well. I got curious though as to just what the compressed load looked like after seating so I pulled a boolit. They shot well but if you expect that you cold pull a boolit and dump the charge - thank again. I had to take a pick and work at it to remove the charge (I had loaded a dummy round with a spent primer). A guess on my part, as I have never used cream of wheat for a filler - but when compressed on top of a regular measured load of BP using a HB boolit - does it compress into a hard layer under the boolit?

[darne]

The way I load for 455 Webley MK1 Colt New Service Target, rechambered to 45 Colt with Metford rifling. I am using the 265gr Mk1 boolit, 18gr FFFG, in 45 Colt cases. I use a Buffalo Arms Lyman M expander to expand the case mouth so the boolit just slides in. I charge the case, insert the boolit by hand until the lube grooves are in the case, then I invert the case and boolit so the powder fills the hollow base and push the case down hard on the boolit, invert again and seat in the press with a 45 colt seater to compress the powder, last crimp with a carbide sizer to hold the boolit in place. I used the same process with Trail Boss. It is time consuming, but it works. My understanding is the Brits filled the hollow base with clay. That's ceramic pottery clay, not kids play clay, and when dry loaded the ammo.

My accuracy results were not encouraging. The groups with both loads were around 6 inches at 12 yards. That is about as well as it's grouped with any load. The Land diameter is .444. The groove diameter is .471. That's a lot of obturation and I'm not sure the skirt is expanding enough. I keep working on it. I have Schofield brass at my gunsmith having the rims thinned and have acquired an unmolested Webley cylinder. When the brass is done I'll swap in the cylinder and try the 18gr FFFG again and Bullseye. I'm going to stuff a 5 gallon bucket with old pillows and recover some fired boolits to check for groove filling. I am convinced a Colt New Service Target should hold the 10 ring at 25 yards from a rest.

Hope this helps.

[KCSO]

The military just seated them down over the powder with no filler. I have pulled many from 45-70 and 45 colt.

[bedbugbilly]

KCSO - so if the military rounds were just loaded empty hollow base over powder - on the original you pulled, did it appear that they compressed enough that the powder went up into the hollow base fully or part way? I realize that on an antique round, it may not have been easy to get an idea but would like to hear your thoughts on what you've seen.

I am assuming that they relied entirely on the lube in the lube grooves. Again, I know it would probably bly be hard to tell on an old round due to lube drying out over years, etc. - but I don't believe I have ever run across anything that gave the lube mixture that was used? Have any ideas or thoughts from what you've seen as to what the mixture may have been? Thanks!

[Outpost75]

Bedbugbilly - I was told by Col. E.H. Harrison that from the Civil War period until the Krag rifle was adopted, that the US Army bullet lubricant was 50-50 beef tallow and beeswax. Confederate Army lube used hog lard. British used mutton tallow, and the Italians olive oil. The Sharps Rifle Company used sperm whale oil and beeswax. Eley Tenex .22 rimfire match ammunition uses canola oil.

[bedbugbilly]

Outpost75 - thanks so much for the info - I have copied it and put it n my reloading notebook. From what few cartridges / pulled boolits I've seen from that time period, the lube was always so dried out that about the only thing I could see was that beeswax was a part of the lube. Interesting what the different governments used to thin it down. I have used 1lb of Crisco to one real beeswax toilet bowl ring for years as my BP lube for everything from patch lube to finger lubing the lube rings of what cartridges I load with BP. For the most part, in Michigan, it worked well although a bit thin on a hot day or lubing a cap and ball revolver chamber. I have to make up some new batches (we are here in AZ due to recovery from surgery I had in April) and of course the heat is pretty hot. Time to experiment with the make-up of my lube to make it a bit stiffer for warm/hot weather. I thought I would try olive oil for a batch and I'll try to find some tallow as well.

I have a new to me Smith Carbine and I will be using an original design Smith Carbine bullet from and Eras Gone mold. It has a pretty generous lube groove and I figured I would pan lube and then put them through my .515 push through sizer. I know in the heat, my usual lube will no the stiff enough. The bullet is a snug fit in the Smith plastic cartridge tube so I am hoping that with a little bit stiffer lube, I can prelude and not have any of the lube migrate to the powder if I pre-load a batch of them and let them sit. The only way to really know is to load a couple and let them sit, then pull the bullet and check the powder charge. I'm thinking it will be trial and error to get the right lube mixture - one that is stiff enough but still soft enough to keep fouling soft.

Thanks for taking the time to post the info - greatly appreciated!